Before there were pipelines of talent, there were trailblazers who created them.
In this episode of Commercial Grade, host RC Victorino sits down with Angie Simon — past President and CEO of Western Allied Mechanical, and the driving force behind Heavy Metal Summer Experience — to explore what it takes to lead, inspire, and reshape an industry.
From her early days as one of the few female project managers in HVAC to spearheading national initiatives for workforce development and diversity, Angie has spent her career making the trades more inclusive and accessible.
Find out what it was like entering the industry as a young woman, why inclusivity is essential for the future of construction, and how technology is reshaping mechanical contracting.
Angie Simon is the Co-founder and President of Heavy Metal Summer Experience, a nationwide program introducing high school students to rewarding careers in the skilled trades. She is also the past President and CEO of Western Allied Mechanical, where she spent decades championing innovation, safety, and leadership development.
Angie currently leads multiple national initiatives focused on workforce development and inclusivity, including SMACNA’s Be4All program. A recognized industry leader, she continues to mentor young professionals, advocate for women in construction, and build pathways for the future workforce.
Episode Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction and Safety Culture Evolution
(00:20) Meet Angie Simon: Trailblazer in the Trades
(02:01) Angie’s Journey into the Trades
(04:16) Falling in Love with HVAC
(12:39) Challenges and Triumphs as a Female Project Manager
(20:18) The Importance of Inclusivity in Construction
(24:06) Promoting Inclusiveness in the Workplace
(24:41) Initiatives for a Diverse Workforce
(26:17) Heavy Metal Summer Experience
(28:46) Impact Stories from the Camps
(31:53) Challenges and Changes in Education
(36:11) Technological Advancements in Construction
(38:43) Growth and Future of the Camps
(40:12) Personal Reflections and Advice
(41:45) Lightning Round: Quick Insights
(45:34) Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Links & Resources:
[00:00:00] Angie Simon: Safety wasn't like it is now. I mean, in the seventies, safety was not even discussed and now it's just a culture. Now it's inbreded in us that we have to be safe. Well, we hope that we can also inbred inclusiveness and caring and belonging for everybody on the job site. We just know it may take some time.
[00:00:20] RC Victorino: Welcome, welcome everyone to Commercial Grade, the podcast that honors the unsung heroes of the trades. I'm your host, our C Victorino, and first I want to give a special shout out to build ops for making this podcast possible. Today my guest is Angie Simon, co-founder and president of Heavy Metal Summer Experience, past President and CEO of Western Allied Mechanical, and whether she wants to admit it or not, female.
[00:00:42] RC Victorino: Trailblazer for the trades. Angie. Marc, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being here. Uh, before we jump in, actually, I just kind of wanna do a personal note. Uh, so there's a bunch of different ways how we get guests onto the show. There's, uh, I mean, my producers and I will find people and, and try to figure out whether or not they're a good fit, but oftentimes as well to recommendation from someone in my world saying like, oh, this is would be a great guest for your show, and you fall into the ladder.
[00:01:08] RC Victorino: So I have a colleague named Eric who, who has known you and Nate. As well, I think you know Nate Erman as well. Yes. Eric and Nate have known you for many years, and Eric, Eric reached out to me specifically and was like, um, you know, wanted to know a little bit more about what this podcast was about. I told him it's about really understanding the stories behind the human beings of the trades.
[00:01:24] RC Victorino: He's like, well, you know, you have to talk to Angie. Uh, not only does she have a great story to tell. But it's a story that's not often told, and I think that's interesting. It might be a through line for kind of what we talk about a little today. Um, in that, I, I think you talk a lot about the work that you've done, which is obviously we will dive into that, but a little bit more about, you know, your experiences in the trade, I think is, is worth diving into.
[00:01:47] RC Victorino: So I, I look forward to it for sure.
[00:01:49] Angie Simon: Thank you. Yeah, I know I've known Eric for quite a while and the great guy, they're both great guys and um, I appreciate them throwing my name out there to you.
[00:01:55] RC Victorino: Well, let's not, let's not stroke their egos 'cause you know, unnecessary. So let's kick it off. So tell me your origin story.
[00:02:04] RC Victorino: So how did you get into the trades?
[00:02:07] Angie Simon: Well, that's a good question. And most people would assume as a female in the, in, in construction that it was just my dad was involved in construction. Sure. But he wasn't actually, he, but he was an electrical engineer, but he worked, um, for the Navy at a point Magoo, which is a naval weapons station.
[00:02:22] Angie Simon: Mm-hmm. So you typically don't take your daughter to work when you work at a naval weapon station. So, didn't quite understand what my dad did, but I did like math and science. So, uh, when I was getting ready to graduate high school. Chose a college, kind of based on the softball team because I wanted to play softball in college as well.
[00:02:37] Angie Simon: Nice. But, um, Cal Poly, San Luis OB had a great engineering program, but what was interesting me at the time was they had an option in environmental engineering called HVAC, solar and Solar Energy. I'm gonna date myself, but we had been waiting in line. At gas stations for gas in the late seventies during energy crisis.
[00:02:56] Angie Simon: And I thought solar energy was a future. You know, I thought that was kind of cool. So I ended up choosing, trying to go that direction. Um, I didn't remember saying to my dad, what should I choose? And he said, well, you know, I told him I like that. But I also thought. I could be a four stranger. So they had natural resource management, or I could be a PE teacher 'cause I love sports.
[00:03:13] Angie Simon: My dad said, why don't you start with the engineering and, and see how it goes. And I, and I did and I loved it. Um, we ended up moving that into me, they moved that major into mechanical engineering, but kind of fell in love with the HVAC side of it as well. And so, while I was at Cal Poly, I, it was HVAC classes, we learned about, um, what, what designing an HVAC system meant and how you can use solar energy to help.
[00:03:36] Angie Simon: With the HVAC systems. Um, graduated when I was getting ready to graduate, um, I was looking actually for jobs and I'm the kind of person who doesn't wanna sit behind a desk, so
[00:03:46] Unknown: Sure. '
[00:03:46] Angie Simon: cause I had been playing softball. I was very athletic. I felt like I wanted to go work for a contractor where I could actually get out in the field and go see what we're doing.
[00:03:53] Angie Simon: So I ended up taking a job with a small contractor in the Bay Area. And had a good friend who worked at Western Allied at the time, and she was a project manager there. So after one year they had an opening and they were a much bigger company than the small, uh, little company I was working for. So I ended up moving to Western Allied, and, um, so I was a young project manager at Western Allied and just fell in love with construction.
[00:04:15] Angie Simon: You mentioned that
[00:04:16] RC Victorino: you fell in love with HVAC. Like what is that? Why, how, what? How does one fall in love with such a thing, such a discipline?
[00:04:23] Angie Simon: Well, that's a good question. I think it's the built environment I really kind of fell in love with. I mean, learning about building, building a building and how, I mean the HVAC system, the.
[00:04:32] Angie Simon: Is really the breath, the lungs of a building. I mean, it's how you get air into and out of a building and how you condition a building and how you make people comfortable in a building. And I don't know, I kind of enjoyed that. I, I, um, I didn't like my electrical classes in college and my dad being an electrical engineer was kind of offended by that, but, um, but it was just too much.
[00:04:49] Angie Simon: Uh, I don't know, wiring and things like that for me, but I did like the HVAC side of things, a lot of the thermodynamics and how. Temperatures change and, and what you do to design a system. I don't know. I just enjoyed those classes. And so when I, and then we had senior design classes in college and we learned how to design a duck system.
[00:05:06] Angie Simon: I went, oh, this is pretty cool. We can design this and install it in the building. So my first year at Western Allied, I remember telling my foreman, you know, I was a project manager, young project manager. I said, listen. Hey, we're a team and you guys know what you're doing. You've been hanging duct work and you've been doing this work for 20 years, 30 years.
[00:05:23] Angie Simon: You teach me what you learn and I'll get you whatever you need for your project, but let's be a team and work together. And I really did start to realize that a lot of construction is teamwork, which I was very big into communication, which I was a pretty good communicator and just, you know, hard work and, and good people.
[00:05:40] Angie Simon: Yeah. And I started, when I say I fell in with construction, I think I also really fell in love with the people that were in construction. 'cause there was a lot of passion with those, uh, all of our, our union trade tradespeople, the sheet metal and the pipe fitters because they were really proud of what they did.
[00:05:54] Angie Simon: 'cause they got to build really big and important buildings in the Bay area. Sure. So I got to be part of that.
[00:05:59] RC Victorino: A lot of the conversations I have with folks for this podcast, uh, talk about how they didn't, um, they weren't a fit for the conventional. Education process, right? Like they, they couldn't sit still.
[00:06:09] RC Victorino: They, they weren't into it. They wanted to find an alternative route. Uh, that led to obviously choosing something other than college. Doesn't sound like that's the same path as you, so, see. Seems like you were a pretty good student. Did you like being in class? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:22] Angie Simon: I liked school. I was, I was a good student and I liked school, honestly.
[00:06:25] Angie Simon: I mean, I, I graduated. Play playing. I played softball for four years in college, so I was an engineer as well, which I was an oddity 'cause I was one, one woman in a hundred in my major, a hundred people. But I was the only woman and, and I played softball. So my teachers are like, what the heck are you doing?
[00:06:40] Angie Simon: You're missing class 'cause you're got going out traveling with the NCAA softball team. But I did love, I liked what I did and I liked school. Um, but you know, I learned right away when I joined Western Allied that. My field folks were just as smart as I was. Mm. I mean, they, it doesn't mean you're not smart if you decide to take the path to go a different career.
[00:06:59] Angie Simon: And, and part of that, I can emphasize that story because I had been, uh, got graduated high school, had five years of college. 'cause I kind of took that extra year 'cause of softball and stuff. And then a one year at the small company. So now I'm at Western Alli. It's been seven years. Out, out of, uh, high school and I had a foreman on the job, on my, one of my jobs, a pipe fitter that was the same age as I was.
[00:07:20] Angie Simon: So he'd been out of high school seven years, been working in the trades for seven years, and he bought a house in the Bay Area that year. And I'm like, wow, this guy, he started right outta high school and now he's buying his first house and I. Had debt to pay back to my folks 'cause my parents had helped me with the school and um, I was just like, I had a house was a long way from me thinking about I was gonna be able to do that.
[00:07:41] Angie Simon: So, um, it doesn't, you know, I think a choice of working in the trades is the one you make and I was very respectful of any path you wanna take to construction. And I'd also encourage people who are business majors that think that they might want to do a job. I think construction's a great industry to be a business major in if you want to come, come work in construction with your business degree as well.
[00:08:00] Angie Simon: So, mm-hmm. Again, I, I'm, I'm a fan of all avenues
[00:08:04] RC Victorino: of the trades. I'm big right now on diving into this idea that, you know, the, there's a labor gap. Obviously, we're looking for ways to close that labor gap, but at the same time, like I'm not the only one, but I'm definitely top of mind is like ensuring that we're not trying to close that gap with people who are.
[00:08:20] RC Victorino: Ill fitted for the trades. Right. Not everyone is for the trades. Right. So you mentioned about like, you know, if you have a business degree or a business major and construction is a great avenue for you. Sure. But. How important is it for anybody across the field in, in construction, in, in the trades in general, to have lived the experience of being in the field?
[00:08:39] RC Victorino: Right. Is it, is it critical that, or is it more effective if leaders from the top down have that kind of hands-on experience or is it sort of not that important?
[00:08:48] Angie Simon: Oh, I think it's a little co It's a combination of both. I'm, I mean, think I need, you need to have a healthy respect of what your tradespeople do.
[00:08:55] Unknown: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Angie Simon: I took a welding class in college and I was terrible at it, and I kept putting holes through the metal. Um, but it gave me a healthy respect for what welders do. Yeah. Um, I think that's important. Many of our contractors are across the nation are run by people that came through the trades. So I mean that, you see a lot of people get in the trades initially, they get through their apprenticeship, and then they, they decide they want to be involved and come into the office, and oftentimes they work their way up to running the company and owning the company.
[00:09:21] Angie Simon: Um, so it's really, it depends on the personality, but I do think that if you, if you're an owner or a, a top management of a company and you don't understand what it is your field does, that's a problem. You need to understand what it means. It doesn't mean you need to know how to weld or hang duct work, but you need to have a healthy respect to the fact that these, our tradespeople are out there working hard every day and they're helping, if you're a business owner, they're helping you make money on the jobs.
[00:09:45] Angie Simon: And so, um, I, I think there's a lot of paths, but I, I certainly feel like. You can take that path in in many ways if you wanna be involved in construction. I mean, my son actually actually asked me, why did you have me go to college, mom, if you're so into the trades? And I said, well, you would've missed out on the opportunity.
[00:10:03] Angie Simon: You were, you were given an opportunity to go to college where you wouldn't have debt. 'cause we've. We were able to afford it. He went to Cal Poly as well, so to my alum, which is a state school. And um, and he graduated in industrial technology and packaging. So it was kind of more like manufacturing and lean, but now is working in construction and he's working, uh, now he actually just switched to a, to a company that does software, construction software.
[00:10:25] Angie Simon: Yeah. So he's, he's very happy there. But yeah, he enjoys construction. He is kind of hands-on. I do think that you need to be a person. You should be a person that has a desire to see. A building be built or that you have a desire to work with your hands or that at least you enjoy that. A atmosphere of of watching something go up in the in.
[00:10:45] Angie Simon: And I'm, I love driving around town and saying, I worked on that building. I built that building. It's a great deal. Yes, of course.
[00:10:50] RC Victorino: Of course. That is some that is unique to the trades, right? Like an eng I dunno it, it's different when you're an engineer, a software engineer, right. There's a thing that you've built with a team of people and it's like you can take pride in that, but it's also like you don't drive past that and say like, physically like this thing, it stands and it has withstood the test of time.
[00:11:08] RC Victorino: You know, like the, in fact, software is the opposite, right? It doesn't withstand the test of time. It constantly has to change or else it just dies ly. Yeah, I,
[00:11:14] Angie Simon: I do, I do remember one time when my older son was young and probably he was maybe. Seven or eight. And he and his and his classmate were together with me and it was like three o'clock in the afternoon.
[00:11:25] Angie Simon: We went by a job site here in Redwood City where I live. And uh, I ran 'em up on the roof because we were just installing you. We had just put the units up on the roof and so I let the kids, they actually climbed into the units 'cause they weren't running or hooked up yet. And I just, it was a neat feeling to have these kids see that we're building this building and I bought that unit, we put it up on the roof and the kids, the one son, uh, kid that he was with is like, this is really cool.
[00:11:46] Angie Simon: So
[00:11:47] RC Victorino: for sure.
[00:11:48] Angie Simon: Yeah.
[00:11:49] RC Victorino: Mo I wouldn't say every, but most children love, like no. The Legos and all the construction, like they love to build, it's a natural inclination of human beings to build things. Right, right. Like, so it's really cool to get to show that off and pass it on to a younger generation. Like, look what we did with our own hands and, and, and smarts, precision brains, by the way, going back to how intelligence spans the entire breadth of, of the trades, no matter what your title is, for sure.
[00:12:09] RC Victorino: Right. Uh, I am not surprised that you were one of 100 in your major. Yeah. Um, that's the story. I mean. You, you mentioned, you mentioned, uh, waiting in line for gas and Stephanie, so like to give context to the listeners and watchers here, like, you know, there is an era mm-hmm. That you grew up in. That is, you know, we may not be where we still wanna be right now, but we certainly are not where we were when you were growing up into the field.
[00:12:33] RC Victorino: For sure. Can you tell us a little bit more about like your earlier experiences and, and hell to be honest with you. Maybe not. So early experiences, uh, being a woman in the trade, you mentioned project manager, uh, like so forth. Like what kinda experiences did you have coming up?
[00:12:48] Angie Simon: You know, it, I had, I I, I'm imagining that some of the women that actually worked in the trades on in the field might have had some even more amazing stories and very sad stories to tell.
[00:12:57] Angie Simon: But, um, as a project manager, I, I would go to the job sites pretty regularly though, and had meetings. I, I mean, I tell the story, it was really my first year at Western Allied, so I'd probably been outta school for two years and we had gotten an award and a nice job for us. It was a big, it was an eight story building in, in downtown San Francisco, which was kind of cool 'cause we had never done one ground up like that.
[00:13:16] Angie Simon: And we had, we designed it and they had started putting the steel up, the hole was in the ground and the steel had started going up. They had a very small trailer job, site trailer on the site, and they had called for coordination meeting. So my foreman and I, Jerry and I, we walked to the job site and as we walk up to the small trailer, it's pretty loud in there.
[00:13:34] Angie Simon: You can hear it, everybody's talking and goofing off and stuff. And I opened the door and when I opened the door of the trailer, it got silent. It was interesting how quiet it got and from across the room, and, and I laugh at this because I was probably 23 years old, but, or 20, maybe 24. But there was a gentleman who I thought maybe at the time was 80, but I think he's probably more like what I am now, like six in the sixties.
[00:13:57] Angie Simon: But he, uh, he yelled from across the room, Hey, who's the girl? And, and it was really, it had gotten silent. So I said, well, I'm Angie, I'm the project manager for Western Allied and I'm here to attend the coordination meeting. And he says, I don't do girls in my trailer. And so I went, uh, but I'm the project manager and you call for coordination meeting.
[00:14:17] Angie Simon: He goes, no, your foreman can handle it. I don't do girls in my trailer. And at that time, I'm, I'm, it's all going through my head, should I push back? But there's all these steel workers in the trailer that work for him. He's the superintendent. We're just starting the job. Do I really wanna push back? And I looked at him and said, well.
[00:14:34] Angie Simon: You need to gimme a minute. I'm gonna talk to my foreman outside. And he goes, fine, as long as you're, I don't, I don't have you in my trailer. So I thought that was very interesting. We stepped outside and I told Jerry, listen Jerry, I'm gonna show him by the end of this job that I can do a good job, but it doesn't appear that I need, I should be in there right now.
[00:14:49] Angie Simon: You need to take notes. He, my, my foreman was mad, but he said, I said, but Jerry, listen, let's not get you started on the wrong foot. So, um, geez, that was a, that was a tough one for me. I, I waited till the meeting was over and Jerry and I wrote back together to the shop and had a conversation on the way down.
[00:15:04] Angie Simon: He was not happy. But again, there's sometimes you need to make waves and sometimes not, and I didn't feel like that was the time that a. That I was gonna show that superintendent up in front of all those, all those people.
[00:15:14] RC Victorino: Um, uh, um, I, I think like a, like a, a theme of this podcast. I'd, I'd like to show the theme of this podcast.
[00:15:24] RC Victorino: We try to honor the grit and strength of the trades, whatever that may, may mean. And I think that oftentimes strength and grit is withholding, right. Uh, your choice not to respond is. Incredible strength, right? Like that is like, because you saw like the impact, the potential impact for, for the longer term relationship in that moment.
[00:15:45] RC Victorino: Like you are already in that moment when you probably, I'm sure were like physiologically like something was happening, blood pressure going up, whatever it may be or whatever it may be. Uh, you were able to squash that in the moment and think, think beyond that, which is crazy. Especially you're that age, what, 23, 24 you meant?
[00:16:00] RC Victorino: My goodness. Right? There
[00:16:01] Angie Simon: really is that though, that there's that thing of, uh, sometimes you have to retreat and to fight to, you know, stay alive, to fight another day and. At that point, that, that moment, I felt very strongly that I could fight all I want, and I was just gonna try to show the guy up and it wasn't gonna work.
[00:16:16] Unknown: Yeah.
[00:16:17] Angie Simon: So I decided, which I do had done a lot in my career later on too, is show by, by doing so, I said, I'm gonna show him that throughout this job that I'm gonna be a solid contributor and I'm gonna go walk the job regularly and things like that. He's gonna see me, but I'm not gonna have, he's not gonna have, you know, and I, and I'll walk with my foreman.
[00:16:34] Angie Simon: That type of thing. But when the next meeting in person, I'll probably send my boss who will be a little grumpy with this guy. But, um, but I, I mean, fast forward maybe six months from that, I was at a, I was on a, had a project a little, just a simple ti a tenant improvement. Mm-hmm. And I had helped design the job and our, we were finished.
[00:16:52] Angie Simon: So we were calling for a final inspection, but our foreman had go, go on to another job. And I said to my foreman, I go, Hey, listen, I'll go walk, meet the inspector and walk him, because I've designed the job, I know the project. I've walked it many times. So here I am, I go out and I'm sitting there hanging out for the inspector here.
[00:17:07] Angie Simon: He shows up. So I come over to him and I introduce myself and he goes, well, where's your foreman? And I said, well, my foreman's onto another job, but I. I'm the project manager and I helped design it. I'll walk you through it. And he, and we're by ourselves. That's basically me and him. And he says, no, no, no. I don't walk jobs with secretaries.
[00:17:23] Angie Simon: And I said, no, listen, I'm a mechanical engineer and I helped design the job, the project manager, um, I, I'll walk you through the job. He goes, Nope, nope. You're gonna have to reschedule. Your foreman's gonna have to come back. And I looked at him and said, really? He goes, yep. I said, well. I'm gonna let your boss know that my tenant could, my, our tenant, the, uh, te tenant in the building could not move in on Friday because of the fact that you wouldn't walk it with the project manager who's a mechanical engineer.
[00:17:47] Angie Simon: He goes, you call my boss. I said, yes, I will call your boss. And then I, he said he hummed and hawed for a minute, and then he looked at me and he goes, give me the card. And he, I gave him the permit card and he just signed it right there and never walked the job and just left. But standing up to him is not a problem for me.
[00:18:03] Angie Simon: But that was a one-on-one situation where basically I had the power in that situation. Yeah. So yeah, you, there are many other situations that happen, but most of the time I had the kind of personality that, hey, I just worked hard and um, I had the backing of my field people right away though. And, and in general though, like, so like, like.
[00:18:24] RC Victorino: Wouldn't have, wasn't it a choice then for your company to put you in that role and position, like knowing, knowing that you might encounter this kind of pushback, right? That, that, so they must have been backing you as well from, from the entire company, essentially. They knew that this was not gonna be.
[00:18:40] RC Victorino: Like, okay. By some folks.
[00:18:42] Angie Simon: Yeah. We had another woman at the time and she didn't have that kind of personality, so she worked in our engineering department, which is a lot, was a lot more sheltered where you didn't get out in the field. Um, I didn't have an issue though. I mean, they kind of understood. I, they, I told them I wanted to be out there.
[00:18:57] Angie Simon: So I don't know, maybe it was that sports attitude and, and that type of thing where I basically said, you know, go. Bring it on. I'm okay with it, but, but I also was super respectful and maybe, I mean, I think one of the things that helped me a lot in my career was early on, so a lot of times our, at Western United, they'd hire engineers to be project managers.
[00:19:16] Angie Simon: And you get, I, I mean. I just a generalization. I agree. But sometimes you'd get these cocky men engineers that come outta college and think they know everything. Sure. And our field folks would, would, uh, kind of eat those guys alive because they would, they would come in and say they know everything. And our guys would give them a really hard time.
[00:19:32] Angie Simon: But I didn't come in with that attitude. I came in with the attitude. We're a team. I don't know what you do, you guys, I respect what you do. You've been doing it for so long. Help me learn. And I think that attitude helped a lot. And so I quickly got the backing of all of our trades folks and now, so with, with them, when I was there with them, it was great.
[00:19:50] Angie Simon: If I show up on a job site without them, I had confidence enough to walk it, but I would get the, you know, you're gonna get the whistles or you're gonna get the this, or you're gonna get, if there's a lot of things you're gonna get, you just kind of gotta ignore it sometimes. But that was back in the eighties and nineties, so.
[00:20:05] Angie Simon: I do feel like times have changed. I mean, if you had done that, that same superintendent thing had happened to me, you know, five, 10 years ago. Oh man. That I wouldn't have taken it at that point.
[00:20:17] Unknown: So
[00:20:18] RC Victorino: aside from being a woman in the trades, I mean there are other initiatives that we'll dive into that, that certainly allow you to speak with some level of expertise on this, but you truly do feel that women have a better footing.
[00:20:33] RC Victorino: In the trades right now, or do you still think that we've got miles to go before we rejoice?
[00:20:38] Angie Simon: Yeah, we're not, we're not there yet at all, but. We're making progress. And I think I have to be honest, and I'm of the, I'm the bottom of the baby boomer generation, but it's, our baby boomers are retiring and that's a good thing.
[00:20:51] Angie Simon: That's what's gonna change our industry because I mean, as much as sometimes people give millennials a hard wrap, they're much more inclusive and they were born accepting people more. And then the next generation behind that is way more inclusive. I mean, the kids coming outta school now. So I think that's helping a lot in that like my, you know, my boys.
[00:21:08] Angie Simon: Feel like anybody can do anything. And that's what they've seen. Their mom's done everything, their dad's done different things. So I do think it's changing. Um, it's just an attitude. We've gotta get. The whole attitude changed a little bit and I think we're working on it.
[00:21:21] RC Victorino: So I hope it works. Can I just be selfish for a moment and just call out that, that you mentioned that the baby boomers are, are retiring.
[00:21:28] RC Victorino: That's a good thing. And then you jumped to millennials and you actually skipped right over Gen X, which is the perfect definition of exactly Gen X, which is I am a proud member of, and I have no problem that you just forgot that we even existed. That's okay. That's what we want. That's what we want. So it's okay.
[00:21:43] Angie Simon: I guess I'm probably on that edge of Gen X, but I, I was ba, I was definitely, I'm a baby boomer. I think I'm the last, I'm a year or two. We got born. At the end of the baby boomers. So, yeah. I forget about the Gen Xs. Sorry.
[00:21:53] RC Victorino: No, that's, that's, that's what, that's, we are okay with that. Um, so this leads nicely into, uh, you talk about millennials, talk about more inclusivity.
[00:22:02] RC Victorino: Uh, I wanna talk a little bit more about, uh, I believe you had an initiative when you were over at mna. Uh, B for all, is that correct?
[00:22:09] Angie Simon: Yes. Yes. I'm actually heading out on Sunday to go to Atlanta for a B for all meeting. So B for all stands for belonging and excellence for all. And um, and, and what hap, I mean, basically while I was SMNA president, so I was nationals and smna, in case the listener doesn't know is a sheet metal and air conditioning.
[00:22:26] Angie Simon: Contractors National Association. So the Unionized Association for the Sheet Metal Contractors back in 2019. I went in as their national president. And there again, I was a unicorn because I was our first ever national president. Um, I, but I'm kind of used to being the first of what, of the president of whatever with women.
[00:22:45] Angie Simon: Um, but while I was there, uh. Started in the end of 19 and then the pandemic hit. Mm-hmm. And during the pandemic, there was a lot of bad press at times, and there's, and, and as it should have been, but because construction had started back up again. But there, there had some very bad occurence happening on job sites.
[00:23:05] Angie Simon: Um, they made the Wall Street Journal, they made major news like there was nooses hanging from gosh. Uh, uh, beams and things like that above a, a, a contractor's, uh, table. And that contractor was a black individual. I mean, things that shouldn't have been happening were happening. And so as a national president for Mcna, I got together with the Sheet Metal Union's national President.
[00:23:27] Angie Simon: We had a big conversation about it. I had encouraged him to go to something called women, uh, trade, women Build Nations, and he had done that in 2019 and experienced. The women and talked with them and also learned how, what they felt on job sites and then, and some of the attitudes and some of the problems they had on job sites.
[00:23:45] Angie Simon: So by, by listening to that and then me talking to 'em saying, we need to do something about this, we got together and decided we need to form the. An initiative that like, you know, we know it's gonna take time because as construction folks know, safety wasn't like it is now. I mean, in the seventies, safety was not even discussed and now it's just a culture.
[00:24:06] Angie Simon: Now you, you, it's inbred in us that we have to be safe. Well, we hope that we can also inbred inclusiveness and caring and, and, and belonging for everybody on the job site. We just know it may take some time. So we started this initiative, um, back in 2019 or 2020. And at that point, and then we've, we've been doing it now for three or four years, and I think we really are making traction and we're trying to get people really, we just want people to be good people, just be nice and, and accept everybody for who they are.
[00:24:36] RC Victorino: How does that work? So what does the initiative specifically do to, to address that? How does that
[00:24:40] Angie Simon: happen? Well. We have, I mean, we, we started in many ways. For example, um, one of the, one of the small ways was we started writing toolbox talks. So on job sites, every day you read a toolbox talk and usually it's a reminder about a safety thing or, or something like that.
[00:24:55] Angie Simon: We're now doing toolbox talks that talk a little bit about inclusiveness and mm-hmm. And how to be nice to people and how to treat people well. Um, we're doing that. We're also making sure that every job site and every bathroom has. Things for women that they need. If they need supplies, sure. They shouldn't have to go to their backpack and grab 'em.
[00:25:13] Angie Simon: They should be in the bathroom so that the guys don't pick on 'em for going to their backpack. And we have little things like that just to try to be more inclusive. But we're also really working with, we're working with a lot of nonprofits to, to, we need more people to recruit. So we're working with nonprofits to try to get our industry to look a little more.
[00:25:30] Angie Simon: Like the demographics of the cities we're working in. 'cause right now it really does a fairly, pretty much a white male industry, except for in a few areas like maybe California, where we have a lot of Hispanics. But we'd like it to be a more diverse industry. I mean, why is it we don't have many, many, many people, black people, people of color in our industry?
[00:25:50] Angie Simon: And, and it may be that we, they didn't feel welcome. So our goal now is to help that and. I will say it's exciting. We have actually six point a half percent women right now in the apprenticeships, so that's higher than we've had in a long time. In the trades?
[00:26:05] Unknown: Yeah,
[00:26:06] Angie Simon: it's, the trades have run around 4% women, but um, we have about six point a half percent in the apprenticeship, so I'm hoping that that means we're gonna get six point a half percent eventually in the trades, but they need to feel more welcome
[00:26:17] RC Victorino: out there.
[00:26:17] RC Victorino: The next question I'm gonna ask, I want to give some context to, 'cause we were talking about you, you were talking about you just going out this weekend for something, for beef for all.
[00:26:24] Angie Simon: Yeah.
[00:26:25] RC Victorino: But there's also heavy metal summer experience, and the context I want to give everyone is, Angie, you are retired, correct?
[00:26:33] RC Victorino: Like you, you are in quote unquote relax mode, but you are not relaxing whatsoever. Huh? No, no,
[00:26:42] Angie Simon: I, I agree with my husband. I'm failing at retirement. But no, I also felt like I retired a little early, so I'm, uh, but my goal is in the next few years to slow down just a little, but Okay. Yeah, so I thought I was gonna retire.
[00:26:54] Angie Simon: I mean, I retired from Western all at the end of 2021. Um, which was also about the time I was working my way through being the, being done with SMACK the president. But during the pandemic and during the time I was smacked the president then for two years because of the pandemic. The whole workforce development problem.
[00:27:12] Angie Simon: The, the whole worry about our trades, about the fact that everybody was retiring and they kept telling us that 50% of our industry was gonna retire in the next 10 years. Everybody was worried about it. Contractors, every contractor at my Jo job as national president, um, was to talk. I mostly went around virtually talking to people at their board meetings and stuff, and that was the number one concern.
[00:27:33] Angie Simon: So while we were, I was talking to my partners in 2020, I said, you know, we're right next door to East Palo Alto, which in, in the, the Bay Area is a very underserved area. I said, why don't we try running a summer camp and we can see if we can get the East Palo Alto kids to, to attend it because these kids are probably kids that aren't gonna go to college, or maybe they can't afford to go to college.
[00:27:53] Angie Simon: And we could really use them in our industry and it would be a great thing. And so I, I got put a business plan together and I presented it to my partners and they said, yeah, let's do that. So, to their credit, 'cause it wasn't, wasn't gonna be free, I mean, it was gonna cost us some money. Um, I, we were planning it for the summer of 21.
[00:28:09] Angie Simon: So during a virtual convention for Smna, I shared that during a workforce development round table. My good friend up in Seattle, Rick Hermanson asked, can I do it with you? So our two companies kind of formed a team and we decided, picked a name and we called it Heavy Metal Summer Experience. Great name.
[00:28:25] Angie Simon: Great. I just, we just had fun with it and, um, decided that we put together projects, uh, that we might be doing. We put together permission slips for the parents, uh, you know, kind of schedules and what we should be doing. We just kind of winged it, but we put a bunch of things together. We had our first camp the summer, the first two camps, the summer of 21.
[00:28:44] Angie Simon: So we had 28 kids that summer. And I think, can I, I share a story about that first camp? Yeah, please. At the graduation of the first camp up in Seattle, there was a mom that pulled us aside and said, can we talk to you? And we said, sure. And she said, well, I'm a housekeeper and my husband's a framer. And my daughter was in a really dark place her last semester of senior year.
[00:29:04] Angie Simon: She didn't know what she wanted to do. She knew she didn't wanna go to college. And she just got really depressed. She goes, I lost my daughter. I didn't know what to do for her. And then she says, but now she started crying. She goes, but now six weeks after your camp, now that she's been in your camp for six weeks, I have my daughter back and she knows what she wants to do.
[00:29:23] Angie Simon: And the really cool thing is I think she's going to be turning out as a journey person. She got into the apprenticeship within six months of our camp, and now I think she's be turning out as a journey person in early. Early 2026. So, you know, that right there hooked me and said, gosh, we could save one kid out of every camp.
[00:29:40] Angie Simon: Uh, it would be well worth the time we money we're doing
[00:29:42] RC Victorino: it. I mean, we just wanna find purpose in our life. Right. And if you're, you're helping to, to. Allow people to see, and even, even if that's not their intention, you're helping them to see there are other options and then perhaps it opens 'em up to whatever might be their next big thing anyway.
[00:29:56] RC Victorino: Right? So to let them know that there are more things than just like what is being inundated to them, whoever it may be in their, in their circle, in social media, whatever it may be, that's letting them know like, this is a path you should be taking and you're opening up more paths for them is, is still a net gain, even if they don't end up becoming something in the trades by any means.
[00:30:12] RC Victorino: So this is, that's enormous. That's huge.
[00:30:14] Angie Simon: And one of the things, we get a lot of feedback from parents, um, when our camps and they comment about how much confidence, like if it's a week one camp, for example, how much by day two their kids were so confident and their kids would come home and tell 'em everything they did.
[00:30:27] Angie Simon: And they said, we never get our kid talk about school. But now they come home and they talk about everything they did at camp and they have this huge confidence, which was kind of cool because yeah, men, the kids were really, really, it was really touching those kids. So what are
[00:30:40] RC Victorino: they doing at camp that they might be sharing back with their folks at home?
[00:30:43] Angie Simon: Well, they're, they, I mean, they're using their hands. Yeah. They're, they're working on things. So we have them, I mean, we, we want this, ideally our ideal camp is mechanical, electrical, plumbing, trades. Yeah. So we want 'em to do electrical, we want 'em to do plumbing and piping and sheet metal and bend sheet metal, make, make toolboxes.
[00:30:59] Angie Simon: So we're oftentimes making a toolbox with sheet metal. They, the other thing we learned really quickly is kids love fire and they soldering and welding is their favorite things to do. So generally we're like. For example, one of our camps in d Kramer in Michigan, they designed a, uh, fire pit. And the kids weld the, they first, they design it awesome on the computer.
[00:31:19] Angie Simon: They have it cut out like the, the emblem, like heavy metal summer experiences emblems on it. And then the kids have to weld all the legs on it and weld it up. And it's a great, I mean, and then they get to take it home. So that's their fire pit that they made, and they can put wood in it and burn wood in the fire pit.
[00:31:33] RC Victorino: So pretty cool. Isn't some of these things, like, not necessarily maybe welding a fire pit, which is, yeah, really cool. By the way, side note, like, it, it, it dawns on me, some of the things that you're doing at these camps are, are right in your wheelhouse, right? Elec, electrical work, welding, you already mentioned you're the best at that stuff, so Yes.
[00:31:49] RC Victorino: Yeah. For you, I'm not necessarily doing it,
[00:31:51] Angie Simon: but that's okay.
[00:31:53] RC Victorino: Uh, shouldn't or was there a time when more public education. Areas we're doing things like this. And are you essentially like trying to pick up the pieces of what's been abandoned? Actually, to be honest with you, during my generation,
[00:32:10] Angie Simon: yeah. During your generation, and I think we saw during my generation as a baby boomer, we saw shops in our, I mean, we had an auto shop, we had a wood shop.
[00:32:17] Angie Simon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We still had those, but it wasn't long after that. And, and it was when, you know, I mean, where all of a sudden. No. Well, schools had budget cuts and I get that. And shops aren't cheap to run. But the other thing is everybody was supposed to go to college and I'm sure, right, exactly. Third generation and then the millennial generation, everybody has to go to college.
[00:32:35] Angie Simon: That's what they say. So at that point, they figured why have these things if we are not gonna encourage it? And so for the longest time, I think. I mean as nice, as great as they are, the counselors were kind of our problem. But I did, I have had con conversations with counselors and a lot of 'em say, you know, it's really hard because we knew these kids weren't gonna do well in college, but here we are, we're told we have to counsel 'em to get 'em into college.
[00:32:55] Angie Simon: And there is a college you can get everybody into, but it doesn't mean they're gonna pass and they're gonna succeed. And maybe, and that's why I think it's neat. We've, we've starting to see some change. We actually, some school districts now have counselors that are working on. Other careers, not just college counseling.
[00:33:09] Angie Simon: And there's so many other careers that don't require college.
[00:33:12] Unknown: Yeah.
[00:33:13] Angie Simon: That, you know, there's, you know, there's, uh, cosmetology, there's the, uh, emergency, like, like firemen and police people. There's military, there's many, many, many careers. And, um, I think it, you know, I think we need to encourage kids to do what's best for them.
[00:33:27] RC Victorino: Yeah. I even, like you mentioned, like they, you could get anyone into like, there, there's a college for someone for sure, whether or not they succeed, but it's also whether or not they even find their purpose. Like now you're just sh shuffling over to like. Something else for a few more years, wasting their time.
[00:33:39] RC Victorino: But are they, are they that, that girl who's, you know, who's lost basically? Yeah. And they're just, they're following a path that's not meant for them, which is horrifying. That's, you don't
[00:33:48] Angie Simon: want that, you know, you see that now because on the, in the past and every, as recently as last year, the average age entering the apprenticeships in the union, it's 26 and a half years old.
[00:33:58] Angie Simon: Hmm. So what happens is these kids have gone, they graduate high school and they might. Go on to junior college maybe, and they're not finding something there. Or they go to a four year and then they drop out and then they work it in and out for a while or they work somewhere else and then eventually they figure out, oh my gosh, I better get a real job.
[00:34:13] Angie Simon: And they real and they get, and they find what they like and they get into the apprenticeship. So that's my goal was to say, Hey. 26 and a half, I wanna see if we can get the average agent, the apprenticeship being 20 or 19.
[00:34:23] Unknown: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:34:24] Angie Simon: Then they'd have a much better career too, because they got 30 years in the trades and they can retire at 55 and they can be out of there really early and make really good money.
[00:34:31] Angie Simon: So I, you know, I mean, I think, I think the perception around the nation starting to change. I felt a big movement this last year. Um, yeah. We were, we had a great article in the Wall Street Journal in May and that really, so then I got called to be on CNN twice in the Fox News Live once, and we just had an article in Forbes.
[00:34:49] Angie Simon: So we're starting to really see a change. We had a graduate that was interviewed on Good Morning America. So, um, I think the acceptance is getting there now. It's just a continuing process of changing the perception of what construction is. Yeah. And the, the world to understand it's not. And I think I can say it, but I, I say it's not your buck crack industry that you think about.
[00:35:11] Angie Simon: You know, I mean, that's what everybody thinks of when they think of a plumber. That's the guy under the sink. And, and there's so much more to it nowadays with technology and everything else
[00:35:19] RC Victorino: that's, we use. I mean, it goes back again to what you were saying earlier in the show about the intelligence spanning the entire trades.
[00:35:24] RC Victorino: And it's something that I've mentioned a couple times in other episodes as well and like how, um. It is the, the trades are a unique blend of strength and precision. Mm-hmm. Um, that I just, I truly do honor. Like, I, I think it's, it's incredible the amount of work that one must do in the conditions that are not perfectly fitted like mine is right now, where I'm like, I think it's like a 71.
[00:35:50] RC Victorino: So I'm very comfortable right now. Right. And I can do the work that I need to do because I have no other, uh, outside forces impacting me. But these folks are working in. Less than ideal conditions and not just like putting something and hammering in really strongly, like in whatever it may be, but like if they mess up by a degree.
[00:36:06] RC Victorino: There's a problem. Yeah. Like there's a significant problem here.
[00:36:09] Angie Simon: Yeah,
[00:36:10] RC Victorino: yeah. For sure.
[00:36:11] Angie Simon: The, the dear. But we're starting to see so much technology being used in construction, and that's what this next generation, the kids that we talk to, they love hearing that there's robotics being used. Yeah. And that we have our job site.
[00:36:22] Angie Simon: Uh, gang boxes now have TVs in 'em, and those TVs are where the, you know, they show our drawings and they show the 3D model in them. So, I mean, it's a lot, it's a different construction world than it used to be. Honestly, probably barter. What drove me to to retire was how fast construction was changing with technology, which is awesome, but I feel like it needs next generation to catch up with
[00:36:42] RC Victorino: that we need to do a better job with storytelling, showcasing that level of it, right?
[00:36:46] RC Victorino: That, that it's not, that even that construction in the trades are, are. Adapting on a slow curve to this technology. They quite, there's, there are things being built and made for the trades that are, that would bogle the mind, right? Yeah. Because of, because of the, the fact that you're dealing with now real world settings, you know, it's easy to build some sort of technological thing in, in my little world inside a screen, like there's no, there's very few boundaries here, right?
[00:37:10] RC Victorino: It's just code and do what you wanna do when you make it have to work in the real world. That's complicated. And so the exciting things that are happening in technology, I do think need are, are potential. Great draw. To younger generations to be like, oh man, like I can use my hands, I can find purpose. I can say I built that.
[00:37:26] RC Victorino: And yet also still use technology, which is, you know, fluent to them obviously.
[00:37:30] Angie Simon: And, and, and I think we, I was really excited when, about four years, five years ago, I saw at one of the MEP innovation conferences, which is a tech conference I saw on the stage. Two venture capitalists who said they are, they're investing in construction tech.
[00:37:46] Angie Simon: They weren't gonna invest in construction tech unless the construction starts to accept it and not a b again, again, uh, not, not beating up bus baby members, but it, it takes a baby boomers to start to retire to actually accept construction tech. I mean, construction is a, uh. We've, we've always done it one way and we don't like change, right?
[00:38:07] Angie Simon: And so we need to get past that because there is good, good ways to do things. And so I'm excited to see that that happening because that is where construction needs to be. And we tell the kids in our camp. You know, I mean, I don't know ai, we don't know where AI is going and if you're, you thought coding was a cool thing to do in high school and you wanna do that for a career, I would be concerned because coding is not an easy thing.
[00:38:28] Angie Simon: AI is probably gonna take that job, but they'll never take a construction job. We always will need people to build construction. So I think understand works well. So, and, and you know, I, I think we started talking about, but the, the times have changed. I mean, I think they're accepting it. My camps, that first summer was the summer of 21.
[00:38:45] Angie Simon: We had two kids. Two camps and 28 kids, and we're in the, we just finished our summer of 25. We had 51 camps and over 800 kids, man. Fantastic. Across the United, United States, and Canada. So congrats. That's amazing. Yeah. We've grown so fast way, I mean, never. That's what happened with why I didn't not retire, because I had no idea it was gonna grow that fast.
[00:39:08] Angie Simon: We wrote a playbook and we provide. Each kid gets a set of boots when they start the camp, and then they get a bag of tools when they graduate. But we provide, we need host camps, so we look for hosts to host the camps, but we, we provide a lot of support for them. We have this playbook, we call it. Mm-hmm.
[00:39:23] Angie Simon: And all the resources in there, and every year we. Add more to the playbook 'cause there's new, new projects that people make and there's new item ideas and stuff. But I, I just, I am just so touched by the fact that it is such a demand and that we're growing so fast. I mean, we've opened applications for next summer and, you know, I'm, and we got a bunch of new camps now and locations we've never been before, so that makes me really excited.
[00:39:45] Angie Simon: I, I mean, ultimately I'd like to get an all. I like the, all the states. We were in 31 states this past summer and, uh, and we had four, four locations in Canada.
[00:39:54] RC Victorino: So, and we'll make sure to link to all this information, by the way, folks in, in the show notes. So you, you'll be good with that. Uh, I can't believe we're almost at the end, so I do, before I hit the lightning round, I do wanna ask one more question that I think is, is really, uh, I tend to ask this to all the guests, but I, I'm very interested to hear what you have to say.
[00:40:12] RC Victorino: So think about your younger version of yourself. Maybe at a pivotal moment, whatever that pivotal moment might be, of your younger version of yourself, and what kind of advice would you give yourself if you could?
[00:40:25] Angie Simon: Well, that's a good question. I think I actually, I had one pivotal moment of my career where I almost left Western Allied, and it was because I got offered a lot more money somewhere else.
[00:40:37] Unknown: Hmm.
[00:40:37] Angie Simon: And, and at another contractor, it would've been doing similar stuff, but it was a different contractor and I just. Said, you know, why would I, why am I leaving this? And I'm happy with what I do and I like the people I'm working with. And I had, and Western Ally was a very inclusive company. Yeah. And I just, at that point, I went and talked to my boss and explained to him that I got an offer that is like, obviously you're really underpaying me.
[00:41:00] Angie Simon: 'cause they offered me a lot more money and, and he didn't wanna lose me either, but he said, I can't give you that much of one year, but I could maybe guarantee that I could get you there in two years. And at that point. It's not about money. And I, I'm glad I took that path. I'm glad I stayed where I was at.
[00:41:14] Angie Simon: Sometimes I think you find the right company who you're inclu that's inclusive and you like, the people don't jump just because of money sometimes. I think that's, I mean, and I'm glad that my younger self stayed. I, it was a very tough decision at that time. Um, but I'm really think I ended up making the right one.
[00:41:32] RC Victorino: I mean, it, it's symbolic of that decision that you made, uh, in that. In that space, in that trailer or wherever that be where you didn't, you know mm-hmm. You didn't jump at the, at the bait, if you will. You know, you saw the longer vision. Yeah. Uh, so good for you. Alright, well let's jump into lightning round here.
[00:41:47] RC Victorino: Okay. See what you got. Okay. Um, what is one thing that gets you fired up about the future of the trades technology? Technology. Yes. Mm-hmm. And, and, and the retirement of baby boomers or technology. It's hard
[00:42:01] Angie Simon: for the baby boomers too.
[00:42:02] RC Victorino: I'm, I'm with you. Because in gen, like I, I have a hard time with vertical video like that is, that is my, like, younger generation loves it kind of thing.
[00:42:08] RC Victorino: I'm like, I don't get it. I don't want vertical video, so I get it. I, I get change is hard. Uh, tech anything, like any tech in particular that really catches your
[00:42:16] Angie Simon: eye? I just think it's gonna help us. Get people back into our industry, trade people back into our trades because of the fact that, uh, they were born with technology and they're seeing that we're adopting it.
[00:42:26] Angie Simon: Um, I think it can help us be more efficient and do what we need to do with maybe less people, but because we have less people.
[00:42:33] Unknown: Yeah. Right. And I
[00:42:34] Angie Simon: just, I mean. I love, I love the idea of technology. It doesn't mean I understand all this current technology 'cause I'm not gonna go there, but, but, um, I love the idea of, of a woman being able to be out on the job site and lift and do anything she wants to do on that job site because of technology.
[00:42:47] Angie Simon: And that means robotics and things like that where she doesn't necessarily have to be the person lifting the 150 pound piece of duct workup. So I like that
[00:42:56] RC Victorino: a lot.
[00:42:57] Unknown: So
[00:42:57] RC Victorino: what's one tool that you can't live without on the job or off?
[00:43:04] Angie Simon: I guess technology. I'd probably say my cell phone.
[00:43:07] RC Victorino: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
[00:43:10] RC Victorino: Well, are you addicted to your phone? Like how often do you look at your phone?
[00:43:14] Angie Simon: Um, am I addicted to my phone? I'm probably not addicted, but, uh, I do have it with me at most times, but I do turn it off or turn it or turn it over when I go to dinner. We, you know, stick it upside down and put it away. Um, I don't answer, uh, it all the, I mean, I definitely don't answer it all the time at all, but, um, I do think that that what I can get when I need an answer for something, boy, I can get it immediately on my cell phone.
[00:43:36] Angie Simon: It's very convenient. So now do you get more text messages or, or phone calls to your phone? I probably get more text messages. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I also tell people, Hey, if you want to call me, why don't you text me first to make sure that I'm not calling? Yeah, of course.
[00:43:51] RC Victorino: Okay. Okay. Where's some pot?
[00:43:52] RC Victorino: Go here. Okay. Yeah, because you, you said answered and I was like, oh, did she get a lot of phone calls? 'cause man, I can't recall the last time I. Can't, which is really weird. I don't wanna admit that. But man, the phone is seldom used as a phone right now.
[00:44:03] Angie Simon: Yeah. And more text messages. But I have, what was really cool after being on some of the national media, I ended up getting calls from parents wanting to know how they can get their kids in.
[00:44:12] Angie Simon: And they would, they might somehow, maybe my cell phone was on the website, I don't know. But I just get out of the random, I'd get these calls and I'd answer 'em, and it would be a parent wanting to know, how do I get my kid in the camp? And that's,
[00:44:21] RC Victorino: well, that's lovely. That's like getting a postcard that you weren't expecting in the mail, right?
[00:44:24] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm. That's like a lovely thing. Right? Exactly. Yeah. Uh, what's your favorite thing that you've ever built? Again, you could be literal, you could think a little bit more philosophically if you want to. I think
[00:44:33] Angie Simon: for me it's heavy metal summer experience. Mm. I mean, I, I didn't plan on running and doing this and seeing something grow like this, but it's been, it's, it really does give me a nice feeling.
[00:44:42] Angie Simon: I get, I'm very proud of it.
[00:44:44] RC Victorino: It's to legacy. It's, it's, it, it is as equally driving by and be like, look at what I built as anything else that's, that's physical and, and maybe also my two sons, you know, I mean, but that's, you know, that's a whole nother shift. Yes. Well, now, now they won't yell at you. So they, yeah.
[00:44:57] RC Victorino: Uh, what is the biggest misconception folks have about the trades?
[00:45:02] Angie Simon: Well, I think I kind of said it, uh, that it's, it's like a butt crack industry. It's not, it's not that way anymore. And I, I know there are times you're, like you said, you're gonna be working in a building in the middle of the winter and that type of thing.
[00:45:13] Angie Simon: But you know this, with technology and, and all the changes we have, you can do, you know, you can do. You can work almost anywhere you want to. It's a nice thing. I mean, if you, if you get married and your wife wants to, or husband wanna move to somewhere else, you can get a job in the trades almost anywhere in the country.
[00:45:29] Angie Simon: So, yeah, I, I hope that that's the, the perception is what I'd like to change, so.
[00:45:34] RC Victorino: Awesome. Well, Angie, thank you so much for your time. If, if I could be as valuable in my. Current active working careers. So you are in your retirement then? I would honestly, uh, I would consider myself really lucky. So I really appreciate your time.
[00:45:50] RC Victorino: Um, thank you so much. And again, to everyone else, we will have all the links to all the things a G's doing right now in her retirement, uh, in our show notes. Um, yeah. Thank you so much for, for joining us. Well, RC remember you can build it. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. Thank you. Alright, well until next time, everyone, just like Aggie said, keep building.