The future of the trades depends on faster training; Manja Horner explains how to make it happen.
In this episode of Commercial Grade, host RC Victorino sits down with Manja Horner, founder and CEO of Boost ld and author of the upcoming book Pass the Torch. With a background that spans historic restoration, music education, homeschooling, and corporate training, Manja brings a unique perspective to the workforce crisis unfolding across the trades.
Manja shares early memories from her father’s all‑girls restoration crew and how witnessing poor restoration work later in life pushed her to focus on training systems that actually work. She breaks down why skilled labor shortages continue to worsen, how tribal knowledge is disappearing as older workers retire, and why structured “skill stacking” and multi‑year onboarding pathways are essential for accelerating competency.
RC and Manja explore why employers struggle to run effective apprenticeship programs, why younger owners tend to embrace digital tools and systematic training, and how improved career roadmaps can boost both retention and productivity. They also discuss AI’s potential impact on workforce development, the need for early exposure to shop class and hands‑on learning, and the urgency of documenting decades of craftsmanship before it’s too late.
In this episode you’ll hear:
• Why the trades are losing tribal knowledge faster than it’s being replaced
• How Manja’s journey from violin teacher to CEO shaped her approach to training
• What “skill stacking” looks like in real workforce programs
• Why structured roadmaps dramatically improve retention
• What Gen Z really wants from employers
• How AI will shift both training and the trades workforce
• Why craftsmanship must be intentionally preserved
• How to rebuild the shop‑class pipeline for the next generation
Episode Timestamps:
(00:00) Skilled Trades Industry Wake‑Up
(00:18) Meet Manja Horner
(01:09) All‑Girls Restoration Crew
(03:20) Craftsmanship, Heritage, and Early Influence
(04:57) Music Background and Teaching Roots
(07:24) Homeschooling and Mentorship
(09:53) Early Digital Shift with QuickBooks
(11:14) From Corporate Training to CEO
(13:32) The Brick‑Dust Turning Point
(15:27) Skill Stacking to Close Workforce Gaps
(20:55) Making Training Real on the Job
(22:41) Training Roadmaps that Boost Retention
(24:34) Career Pathways that Keep People in the Trades
(25:26) What Gen Z Wants from Employers
(26:42) Apprenticeship Challenges for Employers
(28:18) AI and Workforce Transformation
(30:06) Pass the Torch — Book Preview
(32:28) Capturing Tribal Knowledge
(33:51) Attracting the Next Generation
(34:42) Rebuilding the Shop‑Class Pipeline
(39:10) Incentives, Stigma, and Youth Exposure
(40:45) Repair and Restoration Skills
(41:39) Lightning Round and Wrap‑Up
About the Guest:
Manja Horner is the founder and CEO of Boost ld, an Ontario‑based company specializing in HR, skills development, and training for the skilled trades. Her career has spanned historic restoration, music education, homeschooling, and corporate training — giving her a unique lens on how people learn and how craftsmanship is transferred between generations. Manja is the author of the upcoming book Pass the Torch, which explores solutions to the skilled labor shortage, including structured onboarding, skill stacking, and capturing tribal knowledge before it disappears. She works with trade businesses across North America to modernize workforce development and build training that is faster, clearer, and more effective.
Links & Resources:
RC’s LinkedIn
Manja Horner on LinkedIn
Pass the Torch
Learn more about Boost ld
Learn more at BuildOps.com
[00:00:00] Manja Horner: A call to the leaders in the trades to say, Hey, the industry's in a bit of distress. We can do something right now. I don't think we're too far gone, but we have to do something differently right now. Let's do it together, and here's the roadmap.
[00:00:18] RC Victorino: Welcome. Welcome everyone to Commercial Grade, the podcast at Honors, the unsung heroes of the trades. I'm your host, RC Victorino, and I wanna give a quick shout out to build ops for making this podcast possible. Check 'em out. Build ops.com. Now today my guest is Manja Horner. She's based in Ontario, founder and CEO of Boost ld, which provides HR and training for skilled trades.
[00:00:40] RC Victorino: She started her career as a certified music teacher. We'll talk about that, the connection in a little bit. Uh, she's a pioneer in documenting and teaching specialized trade skills and is she's writing a book right now, passed a torch, centered on preparing the next generation of leaders in the trades.
[00:00:54] RC Victorino: Simona, welcome to the show.
[00:00:57] Manja Horner: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:59] RC Victorino: Uh, [00:01:00] I kick these shows off all the time by by trying to get a little backstory. So what is your backstory in the trades? Why are you in the trades right now? How did you get to that point?
[00:01:09] Manja Horner: I'm in the trades because I got to work for my dad's company when I was a teenager.
[00:01:14] Manja Horner: He had an all girls crew made up of myself. Wow. My sisters and a few other of our girlfriends, and he put us on the most intricate projects. He's a historic restoration specialist, so we got a chance to restore. Beautiful wood components and buildings. Historic paneling. We learned how to glaze old wood windows and that that means set the glass in.
[00:01:38] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:01:39] Manja Horner: Um, we got to work in the workshop and turn new wood components. Yeah, so it was really cool. We got a chance to learn hands on and he always said that we were his best crew, so he was hiring women in the trades long before that was a buzzword. That's my key.
[00:01:56] RC Victorino: Uh, is it out of need? Do you think that he did that [00:02:00] with you all or was it something bigger?
[00:02:03] RC Victorino: Right. Like,
[00:02:04] Manja Horner: well, let's be honest, it was probably a bit of a way to pass cash to his kids.
[00:02:09] RC Victorino: Sure.
[00:02:09] Manja Horner: You know, sure. We worked hard as well. We had a lot of loyalty. We cared a lot about the work. Um, we were raised, you know, and to, to work hard. And so I think it was a little bit of, he just could tell that it was a great exposure and avenue for us, but also.
[00:02:24] Manja Horner: He got amazing work out of this crew. So it was a, a little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, we loved being in the shop, but we grew up in the workshop, um, working, watching, observing, having a chance to use tools all from when we were little kids. So definitely it was just felt like a natural fit.
[00:02:43] RC Victorino: I mean, at some point in my history, I think I, it was only for two days, but regardless, I was a hotdog, a hotdog vendor.
[00:02:50] RC Victorino: Wonderful. Actually, it was, it was. In theory would've been wonderful. But anyway, it's not something that I ended up like, like I, I don't sell hot dogs anymore. I don't package hotdog. I don't do anything about [00:03:00] hotdog. So you can have like a summer gig as a kid and it doesn't carry through to your adult career, but you are here now.
[00:03:06] RC Victorino: What do you think, and we'll talk about your trajectory with also your, your other background with music, but, uh. There's still something that, that stuck with you from this childhood experience into adulthood. Uh, and what do you think that was?
[00:03:20] Manja Horner: Wow. I've never really thought about it, honestly, quite that deeply, but I think it was just exposure.
[00:03:25] Manja Horner: I grew up in a beautiful town. It's actually one of Ontario's. Best preserved downtown. So I grew up with a real appreciation and love for heritage architecture. Um, my family is from Europe, uh, one generation back, and so I had, I, I just fell in love with beautiful buildings, beautiful architecture, and I got to see some of the most incredible custom design and build.
[00:03:46] Manja Horner: So I think it. I appreciated it and it ended up being something where I recognized the skill and the craft in it. And so now that's really what I'm all about, is helping develop that craft and skill and pass that [00:04:00] torch from people who are probably retiring in the next four or five years, um, and, and making that available to the next gen.
[00:04:09] Manja Horner: I can see how that's, we're losing that in. At scale. There's, there's some people still staying within it, but a lot of people are, are getting out of it. They're not picking it as a career. So I just saw it as an opportunity and as a bit of a shame and I wanted to do something about it.
[00:04:23] RC Victorino: I, I, I like the, the subtle nod, by the way, of the usage of Pass the Torch.
[00:04:28] RC Victorino: Well done. I don't even know if you know, you said that, but you did say Pass the torch, which is wonderful, which is leading into the book at some point. But before we get into that, I mean, there is a interesting, um. You referenced it either explicitly or just a few times, like, like as an undercurrent, but this the, the, the craftsmanship of the work.
[00:04:45] RC Victorino: Uh, and I think that's an interesting segue into your background with music and, and, and the craftsmanship of that. Let us know a little, tell us a little bit more about like how you got into that area of your career.
[00:04:56] Manja Horner: Yeah. Okay. So, man, it's amazing how our [00:05:00] family structure and our family unit really impacts us.
[00:05:02] RC Victorino: Sure.
[00:05:02] Manja Horner: I was recognizing recently that. I haven't, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. My grandfather ran a manufacturing plant. My uncle worked there. My, my mother was a, a sower and a seamstress, and her mother was a tailor. My dad is in this carpentry restoration, but he also is a university certified musician.
[00:05:24] Manja Horner: So the apple didn't really fall from far from the tree. The, the hobbies I love kind of come from my mom and that, that hands-on crafting side. Yeah. The, the trade side and the music all as part of my life. Big parts of my life. So I the, when I was asked this question once, when I was in teachers' college.
[00:05:43] Manja Horner: Somebody asked in a course, what is your first memory of sound? And we had to sit with that for a minute and go back in our brain, what is my first memory of sound? And my first memory of sound was my mom on the sewing machine. As we went to bed, you'd hear her sewing machine rev up. And I, I'll never forget that.
[00:05:59] Manja Horner: Like
[00:05:59] RC Victorino: [00:06:00] Yeah, I can picture, yeah,
[00:06:00] Manja Horner: you can hear it.
[00:06:01] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:06:01] Manja Horner: And then the other sound was, my dad would play the piano as we fell asleep. So my first memories of sound were beautiful. It was music. Yeah. And sewing as we fell asleep. And so, uh, yeah, we were very exposed to music through our childhood and I, and I selected the violin when I was around seven.
[00:06:21] Manja Horner: Um, just had a knack for it and a love for it, and practiced and worked until I got my teacher certification as a young teenager.
[00:06:29] RC Victorino: Oh wow. Uh, selfish. With all these conversations, I, I just, I, I cast a light on myself in my own life 'cause I'm very selfish that way. But I'm thinking like, oh, I wonder what my son would like.
[00:06:41] RC Victorino: 'cause I play guitar and I try to play guitar a lot with him. And so I do wonder, like one day when he is asked that question, if, if, if. My guitar would be what he says, and what a wonderful gift I feel like I would've given him if that was the case. Right. Like what a wonderful gift you were to have, to have those kind of sounds, meld and, and literally form, form you to who you are [00:07:00] today.
[00:07:00] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:07:00] Manja Horner: Form my earliest
[00:07:00] RC Victorino: core
[00:07:01] Manja Horner: memories. Yeah.
[00:07:02] RC Victorino: That, but so like, why, like, I mean, you can get into, again, I play guitar. I don't teach guitar. Like I, like, there's still something about you that I, that passes the torch. What is, what is it about? How you grew up or who you are, that there's a need to share information, past knowledge, whatever it may be.
[00:07:22] RC Victorino: Yeah. Like what is that?
[00:07:24] Manja Horner: Well, I had a bit of an interesting childhood education experience as well. We're staying in childhood quite firmly. Um, one of my sisters, my older sister, she had childhood cancer. She's fine. So it's, it's all good. It's a good story. Good. But that impacted our, the rest of our siblings education for a number of years.
[00:07:40] Manja Horner: 'cause we couldn't really be in the school. There was chicken pox, you know, all the typical childhood illnesses. Sure. So, out of necessity, my mom homeschooled a few of us, and this was back in the eighties where you only homeschooled if you were a total freak, like only the weirdos homeschooled and us. It wasn't today with due respect.
[00:07:56] RC Victorino: With due respect. With due respect, but yes, yes, yes.
[00:07:57] Manja Horner: Yeah. Yeah. We love, like, we love [00:08:00] ourselves from the eighties, but like, it just wasn't cool. It wasn't the trend like you see now. Yeah. Um, so my mom actually would say that I always had a knack. She would teach a lesson and she's not a teacher, she was an artist, and.
[00:08:13] Manja Horner: She said she would teach a lesson and I would pick it up and go, oh, oh, I get it. And I would turn around and I would explain it in kid language to my siblings. Okay. It was like, just instinctual.
[00:08:23] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:08:23] Manja Horner: So I do have a bit of a knack for listening to a lot, absorbing a lot of information, and very quickly distilling it into something that feels.
[00:08:32] Manja Horner: Manageable. I have that systematic thinking in my brain where I can go kind of step by step through a process. So it That's just a natural instinct.
[00:08:39] RC Victorino: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:39] Manja Horner: Or maybe a bit of an innate talent. So even as a, a teenager, I had my teaching certificate and the only reason why I did it is 'cause I could make 40 bucks an hour as a high schooler.
[00:08:51] Manja Horner: So, hello? It's a ton. Wow. Why wouldn't I?
[00:08:53] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:08:53] Manja Horner: And in my grade eight year, so I went, I went to public school and private school, but then in grade eight I homeschooled. And that year I [00:09:00] worked on my. Violin studies and I helped my dad get his construction business onto QuickBooks. So I helped him take his paper-based software, uh, paper based accounting and get it into, uh, software based accounting.
[00:09:12] Manja Horner: And, um, that was back when it was, you know, early products. People went from the paper ledgers and paper invoices, and he was digitizing. Um, and I helped him with that. I sat with him many, many days and nights building that out.
[00:09:27] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:09:28] Manja Horner: So I think I just had some space as a young person before I hit high school to think what do I wanna do and, and I love teaching music, so I just, mm-hmm.
[00:09:39] Manja Horner: Yeah. I worked for a studio and I still see people today who I taught so interesting. Yeah, my kid's piano teacher, I taught her violin, so it's a funny book. Oh,
[00:09:50] RC Victorino: how about that? Full circle?
[00:09:50] Manja Horner: Yeah, full circle.
[00:09:51] RC Victorino: Oh my goodness. That's fantastic. Uh, just selfishly now, you know, as, as someone who, who works at Build Ups, I, I do wonder, like back back when he was shifting over to [00:10:00] QuickBooks, like what, how difficult was it to change behavior mentality?
[00:10:05] RC Victorino: Not, not just like adapt to a technology, but I'm interested like, like it's, it is so funny, you know, his, his business about restoration, like this is about like. Extending the life of something that already exists, that it's all, that's, that's, that's visceral. Right. And like now you're asking them to run a, run a company on something that's also like abstract and doesn't really exist other than in like ones and zeros.
[00:10:25] RC Victorino: Was that a mentally for him, like a challenge to do or was he ready for that?
[00:10:30] Manja Horner: I think he was ready for that. Yeah. And I'm not sure what year this was probably late nineties. So it was kind of just at the turn when digitization and that digital transformation was being talked about and being done in, in big corporate.
[00:10:44] Manja Horner: Now last week he just said, Hey, I need to make a change. 'cause he's still operating as company with my youngest brother, um, who's really does the day-to-day operations, but he's still kind of in the, in the background. Yeah. And I said, okay dad, it's time for your next digital. Grade, you're gonna need to move into this [00:11:00] software.
[00:11:00] Manja Horner: And he's like, ah, I don't have energy for that. I'm like, okay, but it's needed, so let's do it anyways. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's, oh my goodness, 30 years later almost. So.
[00:11:11] RC Victorino: Wow. Well, good for him.
[00:11:13] Manja Horner: Yeah.
[00:11:13] RC Victorino: So, yeah. How does this story lead to, to, to what you're doing now? You're the CEO of Boost ld, so how did you go from teaching violin to becoming a CEO of something like Boost?
[00:11:25] Manja Horner: Well, I always was entrepreneurial, so, um, I never got into trades after high school because I was actually, I just did really well in school. I had really high marks.
[00:11:35] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:11:35] Manja Horner: And. At the time, the way that you were funneled into post-secondary was if you were smart, had really good grades and you were a girl, you know, you just went to university.
[00:11:46] Manja Horner: I see, sure. That was the push. Yeah. Yeah. So I went into business degree and then I ended up with an education degree. Um, and I was always teaching music and different things and I knew I didn't wanna teach music as my full time. I found it really draining and [00:12:00] hard on the ears 'cause every student is struggling with the same thing and I just.
[00:12:04] Manja Horner: I would get frustrated. Yeah, so I ended up in corporate training. Um, I had a business degree, so I ended up at a bank working at the highest levels of corporate training. Best budgets, best access to systems, best resources, amazing mentors. Working with PhDs in adult education making award-winning training, like it was just a fabulous stage of my career where
[00:12:27] RC Victorino: mm-hmm.
[00:12:27] Manja Horner: I really do feel privileged that I got, I got to work with the best people and they loved the fact that I had a skill development lens. And a coach and a mentor lens. So I brought a lot of my music
[00:12:40] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:12:40] Manja Horner: Influence into the bank because not only, and I learned not only are you working on developing people's knowledge, giving them information on how to do something, but actually teaching them the skill, which is how to physically hands-on, get better at something.
[00:12:57] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:58] Manja Horner: Whether that be a verbal skill, a [00:13:00] soft skill, or a hands-on. Application technical skill, and then you're working a mindset. So I really learned that there's three components to changing somebody's behavior and helping them get better and perform something better at, at the job. Um, so yeah, really just the best exposure ever.
[00:13:18] Manja Horner: And, you know, career takes different paths. I ended up working for myself after that, um, being part of a number of different industries, creating very different kinds of training, exposure to lots of different training models. And then there was a pivotal point coming back to my dad, and this is the opening story in my book.
[00:13:38] Manja Horner: He and I had gone for lunch and I, we were walking down the street in a nearby town and there was a cloud of brick dust just filling the air. Yeah, there was a, a historic building, very prominent building, and it was set up with like kind of shoddy scaffolding. Like it was open to the air, it wasn't covered, which now usually scaffolding's covered.
[00:13:58] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:58] Manja Horner: And these guys were [00:14:00] grinding the paint off of the brick and it was just billowing covering, coating everyone's cars and brick dust. And it was like, what the heck are they doing? Like they're literally ruining that brick. If you know anything about paint removal, terrible technique, bad method. And I said to my dad.
[00:14:18] Manja Horner: There's no training for restoration and you're an expert in this, and I know the training, like I've just come, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm in this blossoming career of building training for other people. What if we paired up and actually did some training in the skilled trades? Um, and I, that's, that was the pivotal moment.
[00:14:37] Manja Horner: So I built my business. I opened it in 2020 and it was. About three years ago when I decided to stop accepting business from any other industry and focusing solely on skilled trades companies. So we're working now within plumbing and HVAC and yeah, manufacturing and just the, the blue collar, because folks that work in these kind of [00:15:00] jobs and environments, they need to be trained in a different way.
[00:15:03] Manja Horner: You know, we've got formal apprenticeships, non-compulsory trades. There's. Examinations and red seals and tickets and unions and like, it's very com complex. Yeah. So, um, I just decided I need to go all in and just serve that industry in the best way possible.
[00:15:20] RC Victorino: Uh, um, for folks who don't know, usually we have like a pre-call just to get a little bit of better, better understanding of, of each other and the guests on what we should talk about.
[00:15:27] RC Victorino: And during our pre-call, man, we talked a little bit about, uh, what was clear was like, um. The, this, that there, well, you know, there there's a labor gap. Yes. Uh, and there's not enough people filling the pipeline on the other end to fill up that gap. But those who are filling up, as you mentioned, it's a complicated, like, complex series of events to get someone to be leveled up and trained up
[00:15:49] Manja Horner: Yes.
[00:15:50] RC Victorino: Uh, to be trusted and reliable and knowledgeable on the field, et cetera, et cetera. So you're very passionate about speeding that up. Right? Like that's something that you and I talked about. Can you talk a little bit more about what that [00:16:00] means and, and what that looks like in, in action?
[00:16:03] Manja Horner: Yes. Um, you know, what I think is challenging for employers, let's stick with employers.
[00:16:09] Manja Horner: Guys that have companies or women that have companies and they're hiring skilled labor. There's a lot of general laborers out there. People that are, you know, can, can handle tools and push a broom and help out and all of that. So there's lots of labor, but the skilled side is trickier. Somebody needs to put a lot of hours into mastering bending pipe or working with wood, um, as a mud trade, you know, being really proficient as a drywaller or a tile setter or whatever, right?
[00:16:40] Manja Horner: Mm-hmm. It takes a while to become skilled in those areas and. Speaking with employers, one of their challenges is trying to get people to be proficient and useful. Yeah. A lot faster. Yeah. So what if you could take, instead of it takes four or five years for somebody to be competent, what if you could do that in [00:17:00] three?
[00:17:00] Manja Horner: How much money would you save? And so that's been a problem that I've been obsessing over and I come back to the industries of music. Sports teams, even military, and I'm going, let's break this down to the base skills. So I'm gonna use a piano example for a second because I think we can all kind of relate to a piano lesson or, or soccer or something.
[00:17:23] Manja Horner: If you want, you could just play the piano and learn some pop songs and sing Lady Gaga and whatever, and pound away for about five years and never really be a very good piano player.
[00:17:33] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:17:34] Manja Horner: And that's what a lot of the training is like in the trades. It's ad hoc. It's random. You're only kind of getting exposure to a variety of things on the job.
[00:17:43] Manja Horner: You're not getting any concentrated exposure unless you're in a manufacturing and you're on a line and you do the same thing all the time. That's a little different. But let's just say generally, if you're a home builder, you know, one day you're hammering a floor, another day you're doing trim, and another day you're doing this.
[00:17:58] Manja Horner: Like it's just very [00:18:00] spread out.
[00:18:00] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Manja Horner: Um, so what if instead you had a very systematic skill stacking approach to your training and your onboarding? So my proposition right now, we're working with some different companies and different trades, and we have to go trade by trade company by company taking, uh, a year and saying, okay, let's say you've got 50 working year, 50 working weeks in a year.
[00:18:24] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:25] Manja Horner: What if we could stack a new skill each week? By the end of that year, you'd have a newbie with 50 skills stacked, and we would align it to the trade with the cerate, uh, certificate for qualification. So we'd align it with what the industry says you have to be able to do for that apprenticeship, but you'd have opportunity on the job to actually be more diligent with your practice.
[00:18:50] Manja Horner: So let's go back to soccer. Mm-hmm. What if you were learning soccer and in week one all you did was just. Kick the ball [00:19:00] into one corner. Just kick after kick after kick. After a week, you're getting pretty good at kicks. Yeah. The next, your only thing is to use your left foot and pass it. Left foot pass.
[00:19:09] Manja Horner: Left foot pass. Um, in, in industries, or for people who get really good at skill, they have this drill type approach because the brain remembers better when it has like a condensed and saturated access or practice on something. Specific, like a micro skill.
[00:19:28] RC Victorino: Yeah. Right.
[00:19:29] Manja Horner: So we could take it to extremes. You don't have to do that.
[00:19:31] Manja Horner: But if you were in a work setting and you said, I've got four new HVAC technicians, let's make sure on week one and two, they're just getting really good at. Oh my goodness. Why did I pick that? Not my favorite skill to try and identify. I'm gonna pick something else. Sure. Let's just say it was a tile setter.
[00:19:48] Manja Horner: Okay. So the day one, you're just getting them to practice nice clean cuts. Yeah. Or maybe even earlier than that. You're getting them to learn how to measure properly. Let's be real accurate measurement. [00:20:00] Um, another week you might just be getting them to only mix mud until it's the perfect Wendy's smoothie consistency.
[00:20:07] Manja Horner: Like,
[00:20:07] RC Victorino: well, that was a great picture.
[00:20:09] Manja Horner: The idea is just like condensing the skill. So they get a really, um, a really strong opportunity to work on something, build that skill before moving on. And that's the only way we're gonna get people building skill faster.
[00:20:27] RC Victorino: So, uh, for context, following our pre-call, I had a conversation for this podcast with someone else who is, who is a young person in the trades.
[00:20:37] RC Victorino: Uh. Echoed your sentiment for sure. Right? Like, they might not have seen a piece of equipment, like they worked on it for a while, for like two weeks and all of a sudden they're not seeing it again for eight months. I remember you and I talking about that. That's right. How can you really master that piece of equipment if it's been that long?
[00:20:49] RC Victorino: Your brain has lost that. You know, even the youngest of brains can't retain that kinda information without repetitive practice. Right. But I, I do like, um, is there two things? [00:21:00] One, how, how. Realistic is that for companies who are running businesses to do that, what do they need to have in, in place to make that possible?
[00:21:09] RC Victorino: But then also is there like a, a fear of boredom? Like if you're talking like literally, like, I'm not sure if it's actually it, but like mixing mud for a week, like. How do you ensure that people are still enthralled? Because part of the issue with the labor gap is as well, is like keeping people like interested and invested.
[00:21:23] RC Victorino: Like they joined it, like, yeah, I wanna do this. And then they were like, oh crap, this is a lot of work. Or perhaps in this case, like, you know, I'm just mixing mud for a week, et cetera. Like, how do we ensure that they're. They, they see the value of this longer term.
[00:21:35] Manja Horner: Great question. So you asked two really important questions.
[00:21:38] Manja Horner: If I forget one section, make sure we come back to
[00:21:40] RC Victorino: it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:21:41] Manja Horner: First I'm gonna talk from the employer perspective. How do you actually facilitate this? Yeah. Well, it really helps if you have some sort of a digital training software. Software agnostic. We help with lots of different ones. That doesn't really matter, but it's easier for, let's just say onboarding you, you want, you know, there's the first [00:22:00] week or two weeks of a new employee.
[00:22:02] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:02] Manja Horner: You're gonna have key things that they're gonna have to do for onboarding. Most companies skip this, by the way, and it's detrimental.
[00:22:08] RC Victorino: Okay.
[00:22:09] Manja Horner: Then the next 30 days, the next 60 days, the next 90 days, you're gonna have some sort of a training plan. We do this really well for companies where they're sitting at a desk 'cause it's easy to go like, okay, here's what we need you to learn.
[00:22:22] Manja Horner: Learn this software.
[00:22:23] RC Victorino: Yeah,
[00:22:23] Manja Horner: by the end of 30 days, we want you to be able to do X, Y, Z. We're not as good as at that in the trades. Usually a a new Trae experience is, Hey, here's John. You're gonna ride with him for good luck. Right. And so the new person feels a little disoriented. They don't know what their path to success is.
[00:22:41] Manja Horner: Now, picture this difference, and I'm kind of overlapping now into the, the staff experience. You, you work, you get hired by a company and they've said, we have a multi-year onboarding path for you.
[00:22:55] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:56] Manja Horner: By the end of year one, here's 50 [00:23:00] skills that we want you to be able to demonstrate and practice. By the end of year two.
[00:23:04] Manja Horner: Here's the other ones. And so by the, by the time your third year, not only will you be able to qualify or four year qualify for your apprenticeship, which we'll sponsor you on, but you have a pathway in your career within our company. And here's what it looks like. Like,
[00:23:19] RC Victorino: yeah.
[00:23:19] Manja Horner: What ex Like that's rare. That never happens.
[00:23:22] Manja Horner: We have had some cl um, companies ask us to help plan that career pathway, and that's the key for retention. By the way, young people don't mind if they know they have to mix that mud for a week, knowing that next week they're getting to learn how to cut marble. And then the next week they're gonna get to learn how to spread the mud and then install the marble.
[00:23:42] Manja Horner: You know, it's, it's a way to get through and it's a lot better than just cleaning garbage for a year and wishing you were able to get on the tools, but nobody will let you 'cause you haven't practiced and it's too expensive for you to make a mistake.
[00:23:55] RC Victorino: I think the, uh, this, this clar, this like a roadmap, right?
[00:23:57] RC Victorino: A clarity is, is. [00:24:00] Definitely the unlock E even like, like, you know, again, like at office work, whatever we know, like I would know what I need to do in order to get to the next level. And I know exactly the steps. I would talk to my managers. This is a normal conversation I would have. I would talk to my manager like, what is, what do I need to do?
[00:24:15] RC Victorino: This is what I want to be like in one year. What do I need to do to get to that? And we would quite literally like dedicate meeting time to just lay out like actually a plan. Yeah. And then our meetings like, you know, once a month might reflect on those plans. How, how are we going to plan? Are we short?
[00:24:27] RC Victorino: Are we. Are we advancing? Will, where can I help you? Where are you struggling? So yes, they
[00:24:31] Manja Horner: don't do that in the trades.
[00:24:33] RC Victorino: Yeah, fascinating. This is,
[00:24:34] Manja Horner: this is, and yeah, so the trades is a bit behind 'cause a lot of other industries are doing this, and so they're attracting young people, right? Gen Z alpha's coming up soon.
[00:24:43] Manja Horner: They're like, wait, I have to do what for like how long? I mean. Sorry, that was more a millennial accent, but, but if you can show a clear pathway, have clarity as to like, here's how you're gonna grow through your career over the next 1, 2, 3 years. It [00:25:00] does help a lot for retention. We have an entire framework.
[00:25:02] Manja Horner: 'cause our whole goal is to help companies hire. Build their team and their skill, retain and then demand that loyalty where you might have somebody work for you for a long time.
[00:25:14] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:25:14] Manja Horner: Right now people hop around every few years and that's frustrating 'cause companies are investing a ton of money into building this skill.
[00:25:21] RC Victorino: Why are they hopping around every few years, do you think? What's the value to that for them?
[00:25:26] Manja Horner: Well, I think if they're not sure what the opportunities are for growth.
[00:25:31] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:25:32] Manja Horner: Young people want different things. They want growth, they want purpose. They want great pay, let's be real. They want better culture.
[00:25:40] Manja Horner: They wanna know that there's fun, nice people that aren't being bullies and
[00:25:45] RC Victorino: mm-hmm.
[00:25:45] Manja Horner: Butt heads.
[00:25:46] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:47] Manja Horner: They want, um. Benefits and mental health days and sometimes a four day work week. Like there's just different priorities. Young people don't put work as their number one be all, end all. It's [00:26:00] maybe like a third priority in their life.
[00:26:01] Manja Horner: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:02] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:26:02] Manja Horner: So, um, in order to retain, I think we, we just have to create better workplaces and create a vision that's big enough to hold the vision of each individual. You know, there's nothing wrong with having a conversation with a young tradesperson early on in their career and saying, what do you wanna be?
[00:26:19] Manja Horner: Are you here just to explore? Do you wanna own a business? Do you wanna one day have a partner? Do you wanna run a crew? Like what do you want? And then can you fill, fit that vision within your company? I mean, that's what the best tech companies are doing,
[00:26:32] RC Victorino: right?
[00:26:33] Manja Horner: You know, they're looking for many entrepreneurs.
[00:26:35] Manja Horner: They're looking for people who are gonna take projects and run initiatives. We can do that in the trades as well.
[00:26:42] RC Victorino: So in your work so far is. When talking to the employers, to talking to the decision makers, talking to the folks who actually implement these, these things into place in their companies, what's the reception like?
[00:26:54] RC Victorino: I is it, is it they're eager because you painted in the, you can't afford not to, is it, you know, [00:27:00] this is, this is a pardon of my French painting. The A, like what is it that they're doing? How are they receiving this, this information for you?
[00:27:07] Manja Horner: Well, I'll tell you that it, it's more well received from younger owners.
[00:27:11] Manja Horner: Got it. So people who are of a generation where digital training, tracking doesn't scare them. They're really open to growth and they're scale. They're trying to scale, and they know that the only way forward is through their people. It's a little harder when you've got folks that are. Older and it feels like, Ugh, I only have five years left.
[00:27:32] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:27:33] Manja Horner: Why would I go through all this effort? Because it is an investment. Yeah. To plan learning pathways for people and to train all your supervisors to be better coaches and to train them all to have a career conversation once in a while. Um, that's, that's an investment. So yeah, people are receptive.
[00:27:49] Manja Horner: Definitely younger, more growth oriented owners, and leaders are interested. Bigger companies that have maybe hit the 200, 300 staff threshold and have the capital, [00:28:00] and so they're, they're willing to invest. Mm-hmm.
[00:28:02] RC Victorino: Um,
[00:28:06] Manja Horner: and just people who wanna be around a little longer. You know, like when we think about the world, 10, 15, 20 years from now, you have to operate differently. We have no choice.
[00:28:18] RC Victorino: What do you mean by that?
[00:28:21] Manja Horner: AI is coming for a lot of jobs. AI is changing the way we run our businesses. It's a tool that's supporting businesses.
[00:28:28] Manja Horner: Even in the trades, you know, AI and construction's happening, robotics is happening. Yeah. Um, people have different options for their careers and for their lifestyles. You know, they're able to work remotely and go live somewhere else and not really care too much about. Digging a, a hole for a pipe in Canada.
[00:28:47] Manja Horner: Mm-hmm. So, you know, if we want, um, these, these trades to actually flourish, we have to do something differently. Uh, we have to create workplaces that cater to Gen Z needs because they're the workforce [00:29:00] applying for jobs. Millennials are leading and, and
[00:29:03] RC Victorino: Gen Alpha, by the way.
[00:29:04] Manja Horner: Yeah. And Jen Alpha, like, I keep that like my oldest is.
[00:29:08] Manja Horner: Gonna be 14 this year, and I think, like, wow. Yeah. Within five years she'll be in the workforce.
[00:29:13] RC Victorino: Yeah. Yeah. My goodness. It's
[00:29:14] Manja Horner: crazy. It, she was born in 2012.
[00:29:18] RC Victorino: I don't wanna talk about that. I was just having a conversation about that with one of my colleagues the other day about like, we have colleagues who were born post 2000.
[00:29:24] RC Victorino: Like, I, I can't, I know. Anyway, love you all. Jen. Jen Alpha, I promise. Um, is there like a, do you feel a pressure, um, like a ticking. Ticking clock pressure with this, and I, what I mean by that is that, you know, there's a large number of folks who are running these businesses, these baby boomers who are now retiring in mass.
[00:29:49] RC Victorino: Right. Like it's a, it's a large number. And with them then is the loss of a lot of important information that is then. Mm-hmm. Like they're the educators essentially, potentially the people who are transferring this knowledge to the, the [00:30:00] younger generations. Do you feel a sense of pressure and urgency for this?
[00:30:03] RC Victorino: Or is there some sort of I do. You do? Yeah.
[00:30:05] Manja Horner: I do. Yeah. And actually the book I wrote, which I know we're not gonna get into it, but the title is Pass the Torch. No,
[00:30:11] RC Victorino: no, let's get into it. Yeah, let's do it.
[00:30:12] Manja Horner: Let's do it. But the subtitle is A Rallying Call to Rescue the Future of Trades.
[00:30:18] RC Victorino: Dive into
[00:30:18] Manja Horner: that. Tell,
[00:30:18] RC Victorino: tell me
[00:30:19] Manja Horner: more about that book.
[00:30:19] Manja Horner: Yeah, it's a call to the leaders in the trades to say, Hey, the industry's in a bit of distress. We can do something right now. I don't think we're too far gone, but we have to do something differently right now. Let's do it together, and here's the roadmap. So in the book, I do give a lot of strategies for how to capture that knowledge from.
[00:30:39] Manja Horner: Senior. Mm-hmm. Tradespeople and especially craftsmen. So crafts and trades are a little different. I would put, you know, my dad's work in the craftsman category 'cause it's very different for every project. I got to work alongside one of his staff. His name was Bronco and he was from like Serbia, you know, former Yugoslavia, whatever that, you [00:31:00] know, war torn, immigrated.
[00:31:01] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:02] Manja Horner: We, I learned so much from him over four or five years where I got to work summer jobs. The day that he retired, he just left. Like there was no writing down his processes. There was no documenting his formulas. There was not a single video or picture of him demonstrating something. No checklists or best practices.
[00:31:23] Manja Horner: 'cause his English was atrocious. Like just literally trying to read his time sheet was a, was like a, a Morse code effort. It was so fun. But like there was nothing. So Bronco's gone and the only people who have learned anything from him was just a handful of people who worked for a small restoration company, but like they did projects.
[00:31:46] Manja Horner: They worked on the home of a former, like, you know, the Molsons, like the beer? Yeah.
[00:31:51] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:31:51] Manja Horner: This was originally a Molson, the a home for the Molsons. A beautiful historic home, specialized stucco exterior. He's the only guy who knows the [00:32:00] formula. It's not written down. So like there, there's a lot of stuff that gets lost and that's at a micro scale.
[00:32:08] Manja Horner: What if we're talking about a larger scale? Hey, we've got 35% of the, the workforce retiring.
[00:32:13] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:32:14] Manja Horner: That's hundreds of thousands of people. You know, I, I'm in Canada, so like we're talking about Canada, it's, it's smaller, but across North America it's the same situation. 10 x that for the us. So, yeah, it, there we are at an important pivot point, and now more than ever, it's easy to capture knowledge.
[00:32:33] Manja Horner: So I give an entire system and suggestions. I mean, I didn't include a shopping list for what tech to buy, but like I could have in the book, you know, I give them a a, a whole method for how to capture knowledge from people before they retire. Um, is
[00:32:47] RC Victorino: it, is it just before they retire? But it's also setting up, setting up a system for, so it's ongoing, right?
[00:32:52] RC Victorino: Like ongoing?
[00:32:52] Manja Horner: It's ongoing,
[00:32:53] RC Victorino: yeah.
[00:32:53] Manja Horner: Yeah. We include a system in there for ongoing tribal knowledge capture. That's what we call it. It's the,
[00:32:58] RC Victorino: yeah,
[00:32:58] Manja Horner: okay, here's what you learned [00:33:00] at trade school, but here's how you actually do it. And that's the tribal knowledge. That's the bits that you pick up, the nuances, the like, when you do it and if it smells like this, you know, you've.
[00:33:12] Manja Horner: Gone too far or like, you know, 'cause even when you, when you sand wood, there's a scent.
[00:33:17] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:33:18] Manja Horner: You know, like, it's not everything that can be recorded. It's, some of it is just like, it's a feel. It's a scent. It's a sound like you mix it, the mud until it sounds like this and then it looks like this.
[00:33:29] Manja Horner: Consistency. That's something you have to feel. I
[00:33:33] RC Victorino: don't know. Mania. I feel like you really like to play in mud. 'cause that's the second time you brought up mud today. So,
[00:33:37] Manja Horner: well, I keep going back to that mud trade because you know that, that's a big one. Uh, you know, plaster.
[00:33:43] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:33:43] Manja Horner: Stucco, you know, mudding. It's, it's mud Trades are actually really, uh.
[00:33:48] Manja Horner: Having a hard time recruiting people right now. Maybe that's why.
[00:33:51] RC Victorino: Well, let's talk about that actually, that that actually was gonna be the next question I have because if you're, if you're passing the torch, like of this knowledge, if you're capturing this tribal knowledge to pass it on, [00:34:00] you have to have someone to pass it on to.
[00:34:02] Manja Horner: Yeah.
[00:34:03] RC Victorino: How are we, what is your opinion on how we are to attract more folks to the trades? And Yes, part of it is also like faster onboarding I'm sure, but like there's also like, I think. Like what we would say in the marketing world, like, uh, uh, above the funnel, people who may not
[00:34:18] Manja Horner: even Yeah.
[00:34:18] RC Victorino: Know. Right? Yeah.
[00:34:19] RC Victorino: Like about the, like, how do we get more folks interested in trades?
[00:34:22] Manja Horner: Well, thanks for asking me my opinion, because it's a problem that I'm not really able to solve. I don't feel, yeah, I think there's other people working on it. And you'll see in the book, I, I give a whole historical journey. I go back to the sixties and how did we get here in this position where we have such a.
[00:34:39] Manja Horner: Just such a skinny funnel in the middle.
[00:34:42] RC Victorino: Yeah,
[00:34:42] Manja Horner: we do. You know, there were a lot of those post-war country builders, people who immigrated here, who had a lot of skill from predominantly Europe and uh, Eastern Europe, and they came over to North America. They had a lot of skill and they were building a lot.[00:35:00]
[00:35:00] Manja Horner: Um, and then in the nineties, two thousands, it was the knowledge boom. Yeah, the knowledge economy. We were looking for information, workers and politicians talked from the podiums and they gave funds to colleges and universities, and they mm-hmm. Impacted education system where shop classes started to go by the wayside.
[00:35:21] Manja Horner: And those automotive and tech classes were kind of going away in favor of graphic design and computer coding and, you know, all these other kind of courses that were introduced. So we, we now have this. Generation who are 30, 40, 45, 50. They weren't really recruited into the trades. They were promoted straight to college and university streams.
[00:35:47] Manja Horner: And now there's a lot of funding and money coming from government entities to pro repromote the trades. 'cause it's like, oh crap, we're 300,000 plumbers short. Electrician short, let's go get the young [00:36:00] kids interested. But they, they don't play with power tools. They don't carry pocket knives as six year olds.
[00:36:07] Manja Horner: Like, they don't build in the woods. They don't learn in the shop with their dad. I mean, I, I remember talking to somebody, she was, she worked for a big brand, WD 40. Are you familiar with that brand?
[00:36:22] RC Victorino: Oh yeah, of course. The
[00:36:22] Manja Horner: magic. Okay.
[00:36:23] RC Victorino: It's
[00:36:23] Manja Horner: magic. So. We were talking several years ago and she was. Part of community marketing.
[00:36:29] Manja Horner: I don't know her role, but she said to me, you know, what we're doing right now is focusing on trying to get young kids to recognize the brand. 'cause they don't know the name WD 40. It's not synonymous with a lubricant for a 10-year-old. Like, you know, Kleenex is the word we use for a tissue, but like WD 40, we all just know you use it to like grease your bike chain and you get the squeak out of your.
[00:36:50] Manja Horner: Door hinge door hinges. Yeah. You use WD 40 for all that stuff. Well, little kids don't know that because they don't do that kind of stuff with their dad or their mom, [00:37:00] so, so there's a bit of a cultural piece to it where kids, I think the pendulum will have to swing a little bit again to giving your kids better access and working alongside them.
[00:37:13] Manja Horner: Again, I hope we haven't gone too far and, and. In losing that, but then also in schools, there needs to be a lot more emphasis on hands-on, you know?
[00:37:25] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:37:25] Manja Horner: Building trades. Automotive class shop class. It's gotta start there because by the time kids are already 14, 15, they may kind of be like, Ugh, I don't really want a noisy, dirty job.
[00:37:36] Manja Horner: Like I'm gonna be a YouTuber and have a Lambo in nine months.
[00:37:41] RC Victorino: Uh, th there is a, uh, I'm trying to get him on the podcast. If he, if he is listening, he should join my podcast. But he's the educator in the, in the Philadelphia school district, I believe. And he has a, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll make sure we put it in the show notes.
[00:37:54] RC Victorino: His link to his LinkedIn profile, his name escapes me right now. Uh, but his LinkedIn feed is [00:38:00] wonderful. He is just, he is, he teaches shop essentially, or teaches trades. I should say it's better, better to say like trades really honestly is what he does with these, uh, essentially middle schoolers, I believe, and maybe slightly younger.
[00:38:09] RC Victorino: Perhaps it's sixth, seventh grade, I'm not quite sure. But the, the, the excitement when they're doing something like, just like that they've never thought they could do before, because, you know, a lot of this stuff is also pretty intense and like, like it's adult stuff, but you know, under supervision, whatever, like they're saying like, wow, I can, like, I can bend this metal, I can, whatever it may be like the, the power that they have with these tools is like, yeah.
[00:38:29] RC Victorino: Not all of them are gonna go into the trades, but all of them are gonna get a skill that they can carry with them for the rest of their life. And then some of them will be like, Hey, you know what? This is actually a worthwhile and fun job. Like this is, this is really cool to work with my hands like this.
[00:38:41] RC Victorino: And so we absolutely do need more of that for sure.
[00:38:43] Manja Horner: Yeah. We gotta get kids when they're younger because they're capable and they're fearless. And if you teach them to be safe, you can. I mean, I was working on sites as soon as I was legally old enough to work on them.
[00:38:54] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:38:56] Manja Horner: I still remember how to do all that work.
[00:38:58] Manja Horner: I bent copper flashing and [00:39:00] like I did the coolest stuff. I got to use the wood lathe and turn spindles and just do really neat things. But I think it's a multi-pronged approach. So how do we do it? I don't know. There is money coming. More strongly now from government to encourage young people into the trades.
[00:39:16] Manja Horner: The second piece though, is giving employers more incentives because they aren't as willing to take on brand new apprentices. Yeah, it's a lot of money and investment and time. They're usually a lot of red tape and paperwork, and it feels frustrating and annoying for them, so they're just looking for people who've already been kind of trained by someone else.
[00:39:35] Manja Horner: Now I'm working with employers to say, you can't rely on that. Start nurturing your apprentices now because five years from now you're gonna wish you had.
[00:39:44] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:39:46] Manja Horner: Um,
[00:39:46] RC Victorino: yeah.
[00:39:47] Manja Horner: Yeah. So it's multi-prong. It's education. At the youngest levels, it's guidance counselor training, it's parent messaging. Parents still want their kids to be, you [00:40:00] know, professionals.
[00:40:01] Manja Horner: There's still that stigma. It's, yeah. Uh, exposure to the trades, giving kids a chance to dabble with different ones and go, oh wow, I really like welding. I didn't know that. Or, you know, I didn't realize I'd like to maybe be a chef or a, a barber or, 'cause there's lots of trades, so.
[00:40:19] RC Victorino: Right. Noted.
[00:40:21] Manja Horner: This is a multi-prong approach.
[00:40:24] RC Victorino: Yeah. But so many things that you said have, uh. Have been echoed by other guests here as well. Um, so I mean, I, I think we all identify the problem. We all identify the ideal solutions. It's whether or not these solutions can be, can be certainly deployed in the way that they, they need to be. Uh. To ensure that there's enough people to quite literally keep the, the world run running.
[00:40:45] Manja Horner: Yeah. And I think a lot of focus is on new build, new construction.
[00:40:50] RC Victorino: Mm. Mm-hmm.
[00:40:51] Manja Horner: But there's so much work that has to be done to repair. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter what city you walk into, you see crumbling concrete. Yeah. And it's, it's a different skill to [00:41:00] repair brick and stone and cement than it is to build a new building from scratch.
[00:41:05] Manja Horner: So, you know, I'm working with some different unions in their apprenticeship programs and. They're like, we gotta build apprenticeship training for the restoration side of it because everything's getting old and you can't just knock everything down and start again. You have to be able to repair and, um, it's a different skillset to repair.
[00:41:24] Manja Horner: So I'm, I'm not niching into restoration, but I'm very passionate about teaching people to fix.
[00:41:30] RC Victorino: Well, of course it's, that's, that's the fabric of your history For sure. It is. So it makes
[00:41:33] Manja Horner: sense and it's green, like it's really good for the environment to fix.
[00:41:36] RC Victorino: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well, amazing. I'd love to transfer over to our lightning round, if you don't mind.
[00:41:42] RC Victorino: Yes. Where, ask you a series of questions and whatever comes, comes to mind first, go forth and, and present to the world and be captured with this sentiment forever. So here we go. Good luck to you. These are, these questions are very tricky and hard. Uh, number one, what's one tool that you can't live without?[00:42:00]
[00:42:00] Manja Horner: Computer or physical?
[00:42:03] RC Victorino: All of, any of the above and could be EI mean, I can, I don't wanna skew your answer by giving you what other people's answers are, but they, they've run the gamut of possibilities.
[00:42:14] Manja Horner: Wow. Um, I'm gonna overthink this massively. My first thought that came to mind was my violin, but I don't know, I guess, is that a tool?
[00:42:24] RC Victorino: Yes.
[00:42:25] Manja Horner: Okay, so I'm gonna stick with that because I would not wanna be without that. It's, it's the way to ground and entertain.
[00:42:34] RC Victorino: A hundred percent. And, uh, with me, with the guitar as well, I, I'm not sure if that's a tool I'd use, but now that you said that, I mean, there's so many people had so many good answers.
[00:42:43] RC Victorino: Someone had said their brain before, someone said their voice, like there, so there's, I know, I was like a Google calendar
[00:42:48] Manja Horner: was like, are we talking about survival here? Like how, how far do I need to overthink this?
[00:42:52] RC Victorino: I do have a bug out bag. So that is, yeah. So a knife
[00:42:55] Manja Horner: is matches.
[00:42:56] RC Victorino: Yeah. Uh, what is one thing that you've built [00:43:00] that you're most proud of?
[00:43:05] Manja Horner: Oh my goodness. Again, I'm going existential like I think my family.
[00:43:11] RC Victorino: Yes.
[00:43:12] Manja Horner: I think I've created a, a family, kids that are really interesting and they've got some great independent skills. Uh, so I'm just proud that I've been able to start imparting and passing some of my torch or my knowledge to them. So my family right now.
[00:43:30] RC Victorino: That's awesome. Uh, what's the biggest misconception people have about the trades?
[00:43:37] Manja Horner: That people in the trades are kind of dumb. I think that's a really, really bad misconception. Trades people are. Smart. The best ones are very smart. Amazing mathematicians. Yes. Loads of hacks. Oh, they're so smart.
[00:43:52] RC Victorino: Loads of hacks.
[00:43:53] RC Victorino: Exactly. Because there's no one solution to things that, that's the whole point. It's like ev everyone who, who knows a little bit about [00:44:00] coding and you know, now coding is a whole different world with ai, but like. Everyone who knows about coding knows that there's like not one singular formula to do something.
[00:44:08] RC Victorino: Like that's the, that's why we pay for coders so much because they have to think about like, oh, what's the best, most effective way to do this that is scalable, that doesn't build on a house of cards, et cetera. Well, you're literally building, building things with that same mindset as well. Like, yes, there's no one set solution to this problem.
[00:44:23] RC Victorino: You have to figure out with your expertise and the the environment around you, how to make this thing work. Yes.
[00:44:29] Manja Horner: Oh yeah. They're very in, you know, innovative and. Inventive and so, yeah. Very smart people.
[00:44:37] RC Victorino: Uh, what's one thing that gets you fired up about the future of the trades in the industry?
[00:44:44] Manja Horner: Well, I think just knowing that I can make a difference. I just had to extend my mental runway out a little bit. This is more a 10, 15, 20 year.
[00:44:57] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:59] Manja Horner: Vision for [00:45:00] me. But I know that with my skills and my network and the, the people we're working with, they all care. And so I just am really excited. 'cause I think 15, 20 years from now, I'm gonna look back and be like, we did that.
[00:45:13] Manja Horner: We had a really big impact. Um, so I just, I just am fi I am fired up. I mean, my, my whiteboard is, has 35 priorities. You know, every week. And it's like, that's way too many priorities, by the way, but it's a lot of work. But I'm just, I, I'm fired up. I wouldn't be here doing it. If not, I'd be playing fiddle for some random musician,
[00:45:35] RC Victorino: fiddle and violin.
[00:45:36] RC Victorino: By
[00:45:36] Manja Horner: the way. That'd by if folks who
[00:45:37] RC Victorino: don't know are basically the same instrument. So, by the way, are you are for folks who are not watching the podcast, you're looking off to the side when you're referencing, oh, my whiteboard is right here. You literally have a whiteboard. I am jealous. I had one, but like.
[00:45:50] Manja Horner: I just shared my white whiteboard for the listening audience.
[00:45:52] Manja Horner: It is full of,
[00:45:54] RC Victorino: I love,
[00:45:55] Manja Horner: it's neat. And that's actually, it's Friday today, so that's set up for Monday so that I can sit down and [00:46:00] be ready to go.
[00:46:00] RC Victorino: Well done. Uh, Manja, thank you so much for joining us today. Where can folks learn more about you, the book that you're producing, your company, et cetera?
[00:46:07] Manja Horner: Thanks. Um, connect with me on LinkedIn, please.
[00:46:10] Manja Horner: That's where I do most of my, um, content and just build my community there. My website, boost ld.com, and uh, the book comes out this march. It'll be in people's hands. It's ready for pre-order now. So I'd love if you take, took a look at it, pass the torch, a rallying call for leaders to rescue the trades, and I'm just excited to get that into as many hands as possible and keep the conversation alive.
[00:46:35] RC Victorino: Yeah, I look forward to reading that. That's awesome. Thank you so much again for joining us. And, uh, for the rest of the folks, uh, we'll add all those links to the show notes as well. Uh, and until next time, keep building.