The trades aren’t just facing a labor shortage—they’re facing a retention, training, and evolution challenge. Martin King breaks down how building a business, supporting the workforce, and embracing AI can reshape the future of skilled trades.
In this episode of Commercial Grade, host RC Victorino sits down with Martin King—HVAC veteran, entrepreneur, and founder of Legacy Chiller Systems, J&M Fluidics, and Skilled Trades Rescue—to unpack decades of experience building, scaling, and evolving in the trades.
Martin shares how he entered the HVAC industry through technical training and a union apprenticeship, eventually growing his own company from a single van into a 30+ truck operation before selling. He opens up about the realities of business ownership—from early hiring mistakes to the “cold sweats” of making payroll—and how growth introduces new layers of complexity that many owners underestimate.
A turning point in Martin’s career came from a single customer request that led him into process chillers and ultimately the creation of Legacy Chiller Systems. From there, the conversation expands into today’s biggest challenges in the trades, including labor shortages, rising wages, technician mobility, and the shifting expectations of the modern workforce.
Martin also discusses his mission through Skilled Trades Rescue, where he supports professionals, business owners, career explorers, and parents by providing guidance on financial literacy, career pathways, and starting a business in the trades.
Finally, RC and Martin explore the growing role of AI in the industry—why it will enhance productivity rather than replace skilled labor in the near term, and what tradespeople should be doing now to stay ahead.
In this episode you’ll hear:
• How Martin scaled an HVAC business from 1 van to 30+ trucks
• The biggest mistakes new trade business owners make
• Why growth creates operational chaos (and how to manage it)
• The real reason behind today’s labor shortages
• How rising wages and technician mobility are reshaping the industry
• What Skilled Trades Rescue is doing to support the workforce
• Why financial literacy is critical for tradespeople
• How AI will impact (but not replace) skilled labor
(00:00) Cold Sweats Mindset: Grit and Resilience in the Trades
(00:14) Meet Martin King: HVAC Entrepreneur and Founder of King Air
(01:38) From Tech School to the Union: Entering the Skilled Trades
(02:26) Starting King Air: Building an HVAC Business from Scratch
(03:00) The Accidental Chiller Breakthrough That Changed Everything
(06:54) Lessons From Dad: Work Ethic, Leadership, and Early Influence
(09:29) Hiring Challenges and Backlog Cycles in HVAC
(12:36) Growth Tiers: Scaling a Business Without Chaos
(14:09) Labor Market Shifts: Why Hiring in the Trades Is Changing
(18:03) The Skilled Trades Talent Shortage—and How to Fix It
(20:13) Money, Margins, and Business Coaching for Contractors
(23:54) College vs. Trades: What Parents Should Know
(26:02) AI and the Future of Skilled Trades
(29:18) What Makes a Superstar HVAC Technician
(34:28) How to Attract and Retain Top Trade Talent
(37:28) Lightning Round: Quick Takes and Advice
(39:08) Wrap-Up and Where to Connect
Martin King is an HVAC veteran, entrepreneur, and industry advocate with decades of experience in the skilled trades. He is the founder of Legacy Chiller Systems, J&M Fluidics, and Skilled Trades Rescue. After starting his career through technical training and a union apprenticeship, Martin built and scaled a successful HVAC company from a single van to a 30+ truck operation before exiting. Today, he focuses on supporting the next generation of tradespeople through coaching, workforce development, and education initiatives aimed at improving retention, financial literacy, and career pathways in the trades.
• Martin King on LinkedIn
• Learn more at BuildOps.com
[00:00:00] Martin King: My dad used to say something to me that I still remember to this day. The secret to being successful in business is not the hot sweats, it's the cold sweats.
[00:00:14] RC Victorino: Welcome, welcome everyone to Commercial Grade, the podcast that honors the unsung heroes of the trades. I'm your host, RC Victorino, and I wanna give a special shout-out to BuildOps for making this podcast possible. Check 'em out, buildops.com. Today my guest is Martin King. Martin is a vet of the trades who is now working with Microsoft AI.
[00:00:32] RC Victorino: In his illustrious background, he has founded and pioneered multiple companies, including Legacy Chiller System, JNM Fluidics. He's also the founder and mentor of the Skilled Trades Rescue, professional outreach and education platform to elevate awareness of careers in the skilled trades. With all that going on, he still had time to talk to us.
[00:00:50] RC Victorino: So Martin, welcome to the show.
[00:00:52] Martin King: Happy to be here, RC.
[00:00:54] RC Victorino: Uh, so I, I've said this before in another different, uh, podcast that I interviewed, but there's multiple ways where we get guests, uh, to the show, and some of it folks reach out to us, some of it is just, like, from networking, maybe customers of BuildOps or whatever it may be.
[00:01:07] RC Victorino: Uh, and sometimes- ... you know, sometimes I go out on my own and, and, uh, just scour the interwebs and see folks who have something interesting to say, and you fall into that camp. Uh, so just for context for everyone else, uh, the, the Skilled Trades Rescue, really wanna dive into that a, a lot, and you've been very vocal on that, uh, online.
[00:01:26] RC Victorino: Uh, that's why you showed up in my feed a few f- different times, so I'd love to get into that. But of course, to get into present day and where you are today, we should always start with the history. So can you tell us a little bit about how you got started in the trades?
[00:01:38] Martin King: Well, I was in, uh, my auto shop class and we had a rep come in from this little school down in, uh, Arizona, Universal Tech.
[00:01:47] Martin King: Mm-hmm. And he went on for 30 minutes about how great automotive diesel was, and I'm like, "Okay, great." And at the very end he said, "Hey, we... By the way, we have this air conditioning, refrigeration, heating class. Check it out if you want to." I mean, that was basically it. I got the brochure, and next thing I knew, within a couple months I was heading to Arizona to go to tech school.
[00:02:09] Martin King: So I went to Universal Tech.
[00:02:11] RC Victorino: Nice.
[00:02:12] Martin King: Um, learned the trade technically, and then, uh, got out of there, went to work for a big union shop and, uh, went through the apprenticeship and turned out as a journeyman, the typical track.
[00:02:25] RC Victorino: Yep.
[00:02:26] Martin King: And then my father was a business owner. Totally different. Like, I grew up in a bicycle shop, and- Ooh
[00:02:34] Martin King: I'm a
[00:02:35] RC Victorino: bit
[00:02:35] Martin King: mechanically inclined.
[00:02:36] RC Victorino: Okay.
[00:02:37] Martin King: And, uh, so I decided, "You know what? I'm gonna hang my shingle and I'm gonna start my own little heating and air business," and I did, and just me in this old blue Ford van. And, uh, grew that to, uh, quite a large company. Um, we had 30-something trucks at one time when I, when I got around to selling it in 2000.
[00:03:00] Martin King: And, um, so how I got into the chillers was just, uh, one of those many, uh, crossroads that you come at in your life. Uh, about '98, '99, one of my biggest customers said, "Hey, we need a, a chiller for this new Hewlett Packard tester that we bought." And I told him, "I don't do chillers, I just do commercial air conditioning now."
[00:03:24] Martin King: And, and they said, "Well, uh, find one of your competitors." And I, and I thought about it for about 10 minutes, and I'm like, "Okay, I know exactly how that's gonna go."
[00:03:34] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:03:34] Martin King: Right? So they're gonna steal my account, which was the really big account. It was really, you know, a ca- a big account at the time. So anyway, I ultimately said, "Sure, I'll, I'll do a chiller," and I do like most contractors did, I bought the machine, the chiller from this guy, and I bought the pumps, and the roof looked like a big Erector Set when we got done with it.
[00:03:56] Martin King: And, uh, and I thought that was it. We did the job, the customer was happy, and then, uh, one, one system turned to two, and two to four. They, they were growing because this Hewlett Packard tester was very, um... It was cutting edge at the time. And, you know, I th- "Sure, I'll do it." You know, we, we, we made good money doing that stuff.
[00:04:19] Martin King: But really what happened was, and I didn't know this, there was a engineer in Stuttgart, Eng- uh, or Germany, where they build these... They were building these testers at HP at the time. And they put a little line in the site prep guide that said, "If you need a chiller, call King Air," which is the, my old company.
[00:04:41] Martin King: And unbeknownst to me, I had no idea. And they-
[00:04:44] RC Victorino: How did that r- how did that happen?
[00:04:47] Martin King: Uh, they talked 'cause, 'cause their main installed base was in, in the Bay Area. That's where the- these machines started all getting shipped.
[00:04:54] RC Victorino: Yeah, yeah.
[00:04:55] Martin King: And the, the, the, uh, in-house people for Hewlett Packard that were selling all these machines are like, "What do we do?
[00:05:02] Martin King: We need a chiller." And somebody, somebody talked to somebody else in Germany, and they just went ahead and put my, you know, my company phone number in this site prep guide, which goes out worldwide. Yeah. It, it goes out everywhere. So these, these buyers of these big companies, you know, Intel and, uh, Amkor, all these different companies that were doing SOC chip development, they're, they're like, "Okay," you know?
[00:05:28] Martin King: They're op- the site prep guide, "Okay, we need a chiller. We need a chiller. Okay, let's call these guys." So I mean-
[00:05:34] RC Victorino: Call King Air. So...
[00:05:35] Martin King: Yeah, so what was weird was I didn't know, and then all of a sudden about six months... no, about a year after we did the first install, my phone started lighting up from these companies, and they're buying these multimillion dollar testers.
[00:05:49] Martin King: And they, and they were saying, "Look, I, I, I got you in the book here. I need a chiller. It needs to be here. How much should I put on the purchase order, and when can you get it here?" I mean, that was, that was the business. So, so Legacy Chiller Systems was born in '98. So for a while I, I ran both companies.
[00:06:08] Martin King: Yeah. And it's just an example on how, you know, um, if you keep your antenna up and you take care of your customer, um, in trades, um, these amazing opportunities would come your way,
[00:06:20] RC Victorino: right? The foresight to imagine, like, y- this one conversation this person might have with a competitor to do something that you don't do could lead to, to an avalanche of, of problematic things.
[00:06:29] RC Victorino: You mentioned that your father was a business owner as well. We could talk about bike shops all day long, by the way. I, I, I'm, I love biking. So man, that's, that... I wish I was mechanically inclined 'cause that's, that's a little side hobby I'd love to do.
[00:06:40] Martin King: Right.
[00:06:40] RC Victorino: Uh, but h- how much did you learn from him in terms of, um, regardless of, of trade, right?
[00:06:47] RC Victorino: The, the... What it takes to, to survive in a business, essentially. To, to run a business- Oh ... effectively.
[00:06:53] Martin King: Yeah. So my dad used to say something to me that I still remember to this day. My dad passed away in 2013. He said, um, "The secret to being successful in, um, in business is not the hot sweats, it's the cold sweats."
[00:07:11] RC Victorino: Explain. Explain.
[00:07:13] Martin King: Well, so, so you're, you're, uh, you're... What you can physically do with your body, you know- Got it ... whether it be fixing air conditioners or whatever, that's important. But what's, what's, uh... what really matters is thinking about, um, being able to develop your, uh, they call it Spidey senses, I call it seeing around corners.
[00:07:37] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:07:38] Martin King: Um, and, and some of that, unfortunately, is born out of worry or concern. Like, you know, what happens... A- and I went through this when I first started in, in business for myself, is... And it's even more intense now, I'm, I'm sure. Um, we're in the... I was in the air conditioning business, right? So, so during the, the fall and the spring, the...
[00:07:59] Martin King: it's not hot, it's not cold, so you were, you were scrapping for work.
[00:08:03] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:08:03] Martin King: Right? And everybody had... The, the cold sweats I had was I had some really good technicians that I worked really hard at training, but these people had lives. They needed money. And if, and if it, it was totally up to me to bring in the work.
[00:08:18] Martin King: This was before I had salespeople and all that kind of stuff.
[00:08:21] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:22] Martin King: And, uh, and figuratively speaking, I was sweating those times out. So to get, to get, um, clever enough and to, to sweat out the small stuff. How do I, how do I, uh, how do I f- make payroll? How do I-
[00:08:38] RC Victorino: Yeah, of
[00:08:38] Martin King: course. Uh, how do I save on insurance?
[00:08:40] Martin King: All the stuff that goes along with having a business- Um, and overcoming those challenges, uh, it, it turn... I guess it's also called grit, having the grit to be able to run a business. That's the cold sweats part of it,
[00:08:53] RC Victorino: you know? I mean, you j- you just defined basically the, the, the premise of this podcast show.
[00:08:58] RC Victorino: Like, the, the whole point of it is like, right, like when you think about the trades, you think about people with grit, and determination, and strength, and, and precision, all that stuff like that, but like in the field. But also it's, it's a lot of other things. It's about, for example, we had someone on a few w- uh, a few months ago, Angie Simon, who was all about grit to like show c- show that women have a place in this industry, right?
[00:09:16] RC Victorino: And you're talking about like business ownership and like just the grit of like the sheer... You're in service of the people who work for you, and you're responsible for them, right? And so th- that, yeah, those cold sweats, that, that keeps you up at night, right?
[00:09:29] Martin King: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:29] RC Victorino: I, I do wonder, like if... Do you remember...
[00:09:32] RC Victorino: Did you always have employees? Was it a point where you were by, by yourself and you remember- Oh, oh ... hiring your first employee? Or like what is that like?
[00:09:38] Martin King: Yeah. Y- Funny story. Um, so I, uh, I, I started just me in this little blue Ford F-150 van, and I was out doing residential jobs mostly for, uh, home warranty companies is what was my, you know...
[00:09:55] Martin King: That, that was what I got into. And, you know, I had, I had some small kids, uh, newly married and all that kind of stuff. And, uh, I had pretty steady work, um, for the most part, and I had a bunch of jobs lined up. And I, I, I actually made a big mistake. I jumped the gun and hired my first employee. Okay. And I had no idea what I was doing.
[00:10:19] Martin King: Zero. I mean, as far ... I, I mean, so, so we blew through the work. Yeah. We got through the jobs after, you know, a month or two, and then it's that same problem. I'm sitting around, "Okay, what do I do with this guy?" And, um, uh, I had him, I had him out working on my property 'cause I just wanted to keep him busy. He was a really good guy.
[00:10:39] Martin King: Uh, but of course I was paying his salary or his payroll, and I wasn't billing for it. That was the second big lesson I, I learned is, you know, first one, don't hire until you, you're reasonably sure you can keep them going all the time. And second of all, you, you wanna make sure that you're, um, you're constantly working on building the sales, building the business, 'cause that's how your, your, um, your, your business, uh, backlog and stuff.
[00:11:08] Martin King: And I, and I, I didn't know about any of that stuff.
[00:11:10] RC Victorino: Sure.
[00:11:11] Martin King: Right?
[00:11:11] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:11:12] Martin King: So...
[00:11:13] RC Victorino: Is, is it like- Gosh, but it's still very difficult. Like, y- you have backlog, but you also have, uh, customer exper- Like, you can't have too long of a backlog. Like, there's got to be the perfect balance of, of- It, it is ... feeding the pipeline at just the right amount.
[00:11:25] Martin King: Yeah. When you're first starting out, the, the biggest challenge is the cycles because in all business owners, and I don't care really... I mean, when, when you get large enough, when, you know, when I had salespeople and I had managers and all that kind of stuff, I, you know, I was at a point where I didn't have to, to push the tools anymore.
[00:11:44] Martin King: Um, but in that time when I was, I was physically, I had to work. I had to work, uh, because I was the face of the company. You're out, you're selling, selling, selling because it's slow, and then, you know, the business builds up and you've got a good backlog going on. Then what you do? Well, I have to go in there and work.
[00:12:01] Martin King: Well, when you're working, you're not quoting, you're not developing those relationships and all that stuff. So the business does this all the time, and then right behind that is your accounts payable, accounts receivable, you know, all the accounting functions. And, and, um, again, it's the cold sweats. It's the, it's just the stuff that's, um, that, you know, you, you don't, you don't learn going in unless you, you get, you go through it.
[00:12:26] Martin King: And I tell everybody all, I tell as many people that'll listen, I never went through Harvard Business School, but I can tell you for sure I paid the tuition a couple times over. Sure.
[00:12:35] RC Victorino: Sure. Was there ever a time in, in, in your many iterations of owning and founding, founding these companies that, like, you're like, "I got it.
[00:12:44] RC Victorino: Th- this is, this thing is not on life support. This thing doesn't need me. This thing is, is running good"? Or is it always, like, just part of the DNA of a business owner that these cold sweats, for example?
[00:12:54] Martin King: The chaos is always evolving There's al- there's always gonna be points of chaos in a business. It doesn't matter what it is.
[00:13:04] Martin King: Um, as your business grows, you know, when you're, it... There- there's levels. So, you know, when I, when we made between zero and 1.5, 1.8 million, we were making ton of money. And, and I had, and I had... I could afford to pay good people to be in the office, and I had some good techs out there. And as soon as I went over 2.2, 2.3 million, you're, you're required almost to hire ad- additional administration to run that business.
[00:13:34] Martin King: And I was working my butt off, and we were making less money, and it, and we didn't get to the next tier until we got into 3.5, 4 million range. And then, and then we were making- Yeah ... a lot of money. And then once you get above that 4.5 point, 4.6 million, then you gotta hire more administrative staff- Yeah
[00:13:53] Martin King: and you have more, you know. So there, there's tiers to it. But to answer your question, all along the way, the, the chaos is, is there, uh, and it's, uh, y- and you have to sh- you have to move and shift with it. That's just, that's just the nature of the beast.
[00:14:09] RC Victorino: Do you think that there's, um... Of course, there's, uh, a consistent line of chaos from, from the dawn of business ownership, from-
[00:14:18] RC Victorino: from thousands of years ago, if you will, to today, of course. But do you think there are, and if so, what are they, unique, now new to this era of, of the world we live in, chaos factors that business owners, specifically in the trades, are enduring? Thinking like AI technology or anything like that.
[00:14:37] Martin King: Yeah. So let, let's talk about, this always comes down to the people, right?
[00:14:42] Martin King: Uh, it used to be that, uh, the, the, the technician at large, okay, when, when I was coming up, um, they... There, there was a draw to stay in the same company-
[00:15:00] RC Victorino: Yeah ...
[00:15:00] Martin King: uh, a lot longer. Even the, even if the company wasn't doing as well as you'd like or the opportunities weren't there, there was a little bit more, I won't call it grit, I would just say the, the, the, the acumen of how workers, skilled trade professionals operated was different.
[00:15:17] Martin King: Now, um, there needs to be, um, a higher level of emotional connection to, to that company. And you hear this word community floated all- Yeah ... floating around all, all the time now. And the, the- Technicians now, the skilled trade professionals, uh, they need to feel that connection to the company. And, and, and if you can make that connection, if you can, um, if the, the pros out there feel that, you know, "I'm, I'm on- I'm in on this mission of this company, and I do see a pathway on how I'm gonna be successful," they'll be very dedicated.
[00:15:55] Martin King: That grit is still there, but, uh, there has to be more purpose to it. I don't know if that makes any sense,
[00:16:02] RC Victorino: but- But why, so why is that? Like, and why is that needed? I- is it, is it just generational? Is it some sort of external factors that, that make this be the case, or is there something else that's, that's making it be that there needs to be something more intrinsic in why someone works for someone else?
[00:16:18] Martin King: Well, right now it has a lot to do th- there's a lot of factors to it. But, uh, I believe the biggest driver right now, RC, is the, uh, the shortages. The shortages have metastasized into a lot of different areas, and one of them is, uh, the employers, if they find a superstar, uh, somebody that, you know, may be a two, three-year technician and, uh, they're, they're just great, their attitude's great, uh, they're gonna pay them very well.
[00:16:54] Martin King: And in that situation, you gotta do whatever you can to get them going. But there's a lot of people, a lot of contractors out there that are in these very, um, aggressive markets, a lot of competition, and, um, they're paying technicians a very, a higher wage that, uh, haven't necessarily lined up their skill set with it.
[00:17:17] Martin King: Mm-hmm. But that employee knows that there's five or six other companies out there that will just hire him or her, and, uh, and they'll jump. They'll jump. And some of these companies... And it was, it was starting to just, when I sold my company, again, you know, ba- back in 2000, I still talk to a lot of people these days.
[00:17:36] Martin King: Um, non-union now. I was a non-union shop on, uh, 'cause there, there's a, a, that can be a big distinction. Yeah, yeah. But non-union shops are paying, uh, you know, finder's fees. They're paying finder's fees to the s- the, the technician that jumps, and they're paying finder's fees for the folks that find them, just to get them, right?
[00:17:57] Martin King: Geez. It's, it's like, it's like professional sports almost.
[00:18:00] RC Victorino: Yeah, yeah, right. My goodness. Well, I mean, this, this is actually dovetails nicely into Skilled Trades, uh, Rescue. I, I feel like when, when we did our prep call, you did talk about, that word superstar came up during our conversation, I feel like. And you were talking about even, like, long ago, the need to identify and, and, and bring in more superstars.
[00:18:17] RC Victorino: Right. And of course, like, it, I, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was, part of it was like, you know, if, if you wanna be able to bring in more superstars- That means y- you have to have a larger pool, right? Like, the percentages just play against you. If you have a small pool, then you're gonna have fewer, fewer...
[00:18:32] RC Victorino: My-- Forgive me, I'm a Mariners fan, so I'm gonna say, uh, you know, Julio Rodriguez is out there. But, like, in- insert whatever athlete you want to. But, like, so you need a larger pool to choose from in order to even get more superstars. So can you tell us a little bit more about that, that... I think that's the impetus and motivation a little bit for you with, with launching Skilled Trades Rescue.
[00:18:51] Martin King: Yeah. Well, I, I did it-- I did a couple of the-- a couple of reasons why I decided to move into Skilled Trade Rescue, uh, is, and I think we might have mentioned this, um, when I was a contractor, I complained all the time to- Yeah ... like, to, to my, my leadership team, uh, that, you know, we, we've, we've gotta find, uh, people.
[00:19:16] Martin King: There's not enough people. And, and the big frustration for me, and I think this still goes on, is if you ha- in any given community, uh, demographic or region, excuse me, you'll have a certain number of superstars floating around, right? And those superstars will jump companies. And what was happening with me, I was in business for a while, we were, we were, uh, either firing or somebody quit, uh, usually quit to go, you know, work for another company for a couple dollars an hour, and then about three or four laters, they're back at my doorstep, "Hey, man, I messed up.
[00:19:50] Martin King: I wanna come back." Hmm. Right? So I spent a lot of time complaining about the shortages and, um, you know, one of my, my cornerstones of my Skilled Trade Rescue effort is, you know, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Yeah. I'm gonna try and do something about it, uh, while I still have a few marbles running around.
[00:20:11] Martin King: So that's, that's that. Um, as far as the other drivers of the business, uh, I've seen a lot of the challenges that are modern-day challenges, and I mentioned a while ago about wages, right? Um, you get a, uh, a newbie coming into the trades, bright person, man or woman, doesn't matter. They've got the bedside manner to talk to the customers, and they've got the technical ability to, to really learn and grow and all that kind of stuff.
[00:20:43] Martin King: Ever-- Now ever more than before is, is when, um, the, the trajectory of the wages are rising very quickly, uh, way faster than they used to. Now, unions are more structured, but they're following this too. If they've got a superstar in the making, they're gonna do whatever they can. You know, for example, um, if they've got a three-year apprentice, some union shops are putting these guys at foreman wages, whatever they can get away with to get that, um, that person to stay in the union and stay with the company.
[00:21:17] Martin King: Well, one of the biggest problems with that is, um, the The high schools eliminated, uh, home economics. Yeah. They don't teach money management anymore, right? So this is one of my big things is, uh, I, I coach a lot of, um, uh, I coach a lot of the, um, the, the newbies coming in, uh, sometimes just one-on-one just bec- They'll, they'll call me and I'll have, you know, riverside conversations with them.
[00:21:46] Martin King: And they start making $20 an hour, and in three or four years they're getting close to six figures. But what's happened is their spending is going up faster- Mm ... than their, their wages.
[00:21:57] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:21:58] Martin King: And, uh, you know, uh, "If, if I've got one jet ski, I guess I can afford two." And, and I... You know, they got truck payments and all that kind of stuff.
[00:22:07] Martin King: And, uh, so money management is a big thing that I've been really trying to help a lot of these folks about and th- that's, that's a, a really big challenge. And then the other one is, "Hey, I wanna start, I wanna start my own business." Yeah. You know, "I've, I've been a journeyman for a while, um, and I, I see how much...
[00:22:26] Martin King: I think I got a pretty good idea how much my boss is making, and I wanna start my own business." Uh, so I'm, I'm doing a lot of coaching around that subject as well.
[00:22:36] RC Victorino: Yeah, I see these... I'm on the website right now for folks. It's skilledtraderescue.com, and we'll obviously add that into the, into the show notes.
[00:22:43] RC Victorino: But I see some paths, right? Choose a path that fits you best. You mentioned, you know, tools to help you earn more or grow your career, skilled trade business owners, strategies to elevate your business to the next level. So these are individuals would be... What is your most likely, uh, customer or whatever it may be that you, you might refer to them?
[00:22:59] Martin King: Uh, customers for my digital products would probably be the business owners. Um, and you'll notice, uh, uh, I service four niches. Basically, it's the skilled trade professional, the business owner, uh, the explorer. Yeah. And the, and the explorers are gonna be folks that have some college education, maybe, maybe not, but they got out of high school and they're kind of floundering and they're hearing about skilled trades.
[00:23:24] Martin King: So those are my explorer crew. And then the other one is the parents. Um- Love it ... the, the, you know, the, uh, high school sophomore, junior, sometimes seniors. You know, uh, th- these parents are considering writing some big checks- Yeah ... possibly. So, you know, I'm, I'm trying to give them the truth about, you know, what, uh, what trades are about.
[00:23:49] Martin King: And, um, so, so those are the four niches that I'm serving, or trying to anyway.
[00:23:54] RC Victorino: It's, uh... I, I was just having a conversation with someone else that we're gonna have on the podcast in, in a, in a few weeks, and, uh- ... we were talking about they have, like, these, these expos where they get to show people, like, what it's like to be in the trades- Yeah
[00:24:06] RC Victorino: what have you. Mm-hmm. And I love that, that concept. Uh, and it was... You know, they mentioned it was just as important for the parents to go in and see, like, quite literally put their hands on the, on the tools that are being used, what have you. Uh, and it... Long story short, it got to the, to the point where we were talking about how The, the kids who would be entering the workforce right now or soon enough in the next couple years, their parents for the most part are...
[00:24:27] RC Victorino: They have very little exposure to the trades. So where other people might have had like that just osmosis-like sort of, uh, relationship where like, you know, the person is very handy either at home or just that's literally what they do for a living, uh, that's less and less so, right? Because home economics, because wood shop, metal shop were like 20 years ago, let's say now like 30 years ago, were taken away, and now we're seeing the repercussions, right?
[00:24:49] RC Victorino: These parents are having children, and they can't pass on these kind of- Mm-hmm ... blue collar skilled labor, uh, skills that... So now we're seeing it. So I love that you're involving the parents as well, 'cause I think that's truly important. We can't assume that the parents even have the right idea of what the trades are.
[00:25:04] RC Victorino: We, we might all be, uh, skewed in what we think it is.
[00:25:07] Martin King: Yeah. I, I'm not anti-college. I think college is a, is a, a good choice for the right, um, situation. But one of the things that, you know, talk about evolution is, you know, a lot of parents that are considering putting their kids through school, um, they're...
[00:25:25] Martin King: First of all, they're seeing how expensive it is now. You know, the, the cost, the trajectory of, of cost to go to college. Uh, there is smarter ways to do it, uh, you know, JC and then going over as a junior. That's a smart way to do it.
[00:25:40] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Martin King: But, um, the, the thing is, is the, the college experience now in 2026 is much different than it was 20 years ago, right?
[00:25:51] Martin King: And, uh, and I think a lot of, um, parents, rightly so, in certain circumstances are really starting to reevaluate the value proposition of a college education.
[00:26:02] RC Victorino: Do you think that, that AI at all has any impact on that for the positive for the trades because of all the talk about, um, you know, how it's gonna slash basically my job, uh, all sorts of white collar jobs and office jobs, what have you?
[00:26:15] RC Victorino: Do, do you think that's a, a potentially positive narrative for the trades?
[00:26:19] Martin King: Yeah. I think w- I think there's phases to it. So, uh, I've, I've learned a lot, uh, about that particular tu- uh, topic, being at Microsoft AI. Um, I get a chance to talk to some people that are way smarter than me in all this stuff. But the, um, the, the way it's working is AI's insertion into a, a subject, uh, and then we'll talk about the job market.
[00:26:46] Martin King: First, it's, it's augmentation. So, so even- Mm-hmm ... people that had white collar jobs, their, their jobs for, for quite some time now have been augmented-
[00:26:56] RC Victorino: Yeah ...
[00:26:57] Martin King: by, um, by AI, and that's gonna continue for a while. However, once that technology gets to a certain point, it's gonna, it's gonna surpass augmentation, and it's actually gonna start replacing, right?
[00:27:09] Martin King: So- In skilled trades, it's no different. Right now, and, and you're seeing it popping up in a lot of the trade magazines, um, all these little companies that are popping up that are offering, you know, uh, software solutions primarily that, uh, help with scheduling and, uh, system design, all that kind of stuff.
[00:27:27] Martin King: We're just now entering what I se- what I'm calling the serious augmentation stage of, uh, for skilled trades. Mm-hmm. So, so it's going to, um, for example, manufacturers. I was a chiller manufacturer for many years, and, uh, the, the AI, um, will be at a point where you can train an AI model, and I actually experimented with this, um, recently, um, on certain topics, and if you feed the right data into your AI, you can, you can probably get to a point when a, when a service technician's at, at minus five degrees Fahrenheit is trying to pick- fix a rooftop package unit, and they're, they get put on hold for three hours to talk to somebody at one of the major manufacturers.
[00:28:13] Martin King: They'll have an AI tool that'll probably walk them through the exact thing. That's augmentation. Mm-hmm. The fortunate thing about, um, skilled trades, why it's gonna be in the augmentation phase, I think, much longer, is it won't be surpassed or the jobs won't be replaced by AI until the, the whole topic of AI goes from the virtual world into the physical world.
[00:28:39] Martin King: As soon as those white robots figure out how to strap on a tool belt and be able to get into these fine motor skills and then be able to walk up cold to a, a, a, a direct digital control panel and go in there with a very small screwdriver and, and be able to think it through and figure how to do it, um, that's when, when trades are gonna be in trouble, but I don't see that happening anytime real soon.
[00:29:01] RC Victorino: Real soon. This is... We, we could, we could really dive into something ugly here. Yeah. Geez. Uh, moving that along, though, so, um- Sor-
[00:29:11] Martin King: sorry to be a fun sponge. I'm just...
[00:29:13] RC Victorino: I mean, it, it's intent- it is, it is a conversation we all should be having anyway- True ... regardless. Before I ask this next question, I actually wanna precursor with a, with a question that lingers on still to the superstar thing.
[00:29:23] RC Victorino: So you were talking about superstars. Can you just define to me, like, what is a s- i- in this field, what do you define as superstar? What does that mean?
[00:29:33] Martin King: Uh, all right. So I'll, I'll just rapid fire the list. So creativity, uh, problem-solving. In other words, they're, they're creative people. They know how to problem solve.
[00:29:48] Martin King: They know how to research and, uh, and apply what they've learned to a, a, a real problem in, in the field. And here's the big one, and this is the hard one. Um, having good bedside manner.
[00:30:03] RC Victorino: Hmm.
[00:30:04] Martin King: So for example, talking, you know, a lot of people understand med- medical stuff, right? So, um, in, you know, in the medical world, if you're getting brain surgery, um, you, you probably don't
[00:30:19] Martin King: If your brain surgeon doesn't necessarily have the best people skills, you know, is that a, is that a problem or not? Well, I ... Probably not, because you're not hiring them to be your best friend. But it sure would help if the brain surgeon had a personality and had the ability to have you ... to, to make you feel about the decisions that you're making are smart ones.
[00:30:45] RC Victorino: I'll, I'll, like, I'll bring that into, like, car mechanics, right? If I have a car mechanic who I just don't ... Like, I don't like him. He's, he's just gruff or mean. Like, why? I have other options. I'll go somewhere else. Like, I'll find someone else, 'cause, like, it's just ... You know, my ... Like, I'm uncomfortable having to pay this money to fix my car anyway.
[00:31:00] RC Victorino: Like, I'm not in a spot where I'm very happy to begin with. I need someone to soften the blow a little bit. Like-
[00:31:04] Martin King: Mm-hmm ...
[00:31:05] RC Victorino: make me feel better about the situation. So yeah, for sure. Like, I would just choose someone else, because this is already, like, uncomfortable for me. I, I, I don't want you to add to that by being just, like, just meh or just rude in general.
[00:31:17] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm. So if you're saying that those are superstars, right?
[00:31:20] Martin King: Um, so, so that's all, that's all, uh, applied, uh, applied superstar things.
[00:31:27] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:27] Martin King: Probably the biggest one is, um, on the inward company culture is, um, and, you know, it's, it's probably a little overdone, team player. Um, I, I guess w- what is really important for a superstar is to, um, have a, um, a respectful attitude and, uh, and patience when dealing with the ownership of the company and their coworkers.
[00:31:56] Martin King: That, that's a big, the big deal because if you ... I've had this, I had this happen to me. When you have a, a big shop, you have a couple, um, superstars on the technical side, but they get back to the office and they're badmouthing their coworkers and they're badmouthing- Yeah ... the company, and they're badmouthing the ownership.
[00:32:15] Martin King: Um, that's, that wipes out a lot of that stuff, 'cause you're, 'cause you're creating, uh, real issues. Yeah. So that's the biggest inside one. The other ones are more outside and dealing with the public and their problems that you're trying to solve.
[00:32:30] RC Victorino: When do those traits appear? So for someone who's trying to either cultivate someone or identify the right hires or whatever it may be, when can you tell th- that someone is either is a superstar or has the makings of a superstar?
[00:32:45] RC Victorino: H- how can you identify those earlier on?
[00:32:47] Martin King: Great question, Skinny. They don't have to, they don't have to come out of a trade school. Yeah. Um, what, what I used to use, and there's a bunch of them out there, um, Caliper was one. Um, I used to, no matter how they came to me, whether that be from, uh, you know, a, a, a current trade school graduate or somebody who's been in the field for a while, or maybe somebody who...
[00:33:12] Martin King: I, 'cause I did this a few times, I would go to Home Depot and just meet this person, um, you know, that, "Hey, where's your, you know, where's your, uh, in- insulation at? I, this store, you changed this store around." You got a employee- Hmm ... there that really, really cared.
[00:33:29] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:33:29] Martin King: I hired a few of those people, right?
[00:33:31] Martin King: Great. They knew absolutely nothing about HVAC, and I'd, I'd bring them in to do a, a personality profile on them, and there were certain traits, uh, that, that I could pretty much predict. Uh, not, not 100% accuracy, but it, but it, it really made a huge difference in, uh, eval- pre-evaluation. If you give me somebody that's got the core in their personality, I can teach them anything.
[00:33:58] Martin King: Mm-hmm. I can teach them how to fix air conditioners and chillers.
[00:34:02] RC Victorino: I think that's such an interesting take because we always think about the actual skill itself, right? Make sure can they, can they do the job. But if some things are, some things are easier to teach and hand off and pass knowledge to than other things, and so you might as well invest a little bit more time on finding the folks of those, like, intangibles that you, that are harder to truly, uh, pass off your knowledge to.
[00:34:22] RC Victorino: Because then you're working with a stronger piece of clay when you do that, when you ha- when you're picking these so, quote, unquote, "superstars". Okay, one more question before we shift over to lightning round- Okay ... about, about superstars. Uh, what is the narrative that folks in the trades should be conveying to attract anyone really, but honestly, truly superstars?
[00:34:43] RC Victorino: So what I mean by that is, like, there's all this conversation about you can make a lot of money, or this is impervious to AI, for now. Do you think, is there a core narrative or talking point that folks should be rallying around that truly is what hits home for these superstars and just for folks in general who are potentially interested in the trades?
[00:35:02] Martin King: You know, I can only speak from my perspective and, and I didn't... When I got out of trade school, I didn't, y- I mean, it just, I thought I knew everything. I didn't know anything. Um, and I would say the, the truth would be if you learn a skill, and again, my, my skill is HVAC refrigeration, and you're- You're competent at that, you've got a good personality, and, you know, you, you work hard.
[00:35:32] Martin King: Um, what I've been blown away with, even now today, is the, um, the sheer vastness of the opportunities, the directions I can go. Mm-hmm. So, um, just talking again, refrigeration, air conditioning, right? So if you learn the, the, s- the trade, nowadays you can go, uh, controls. You can go, um, working on air conditioning.
[00:35:57] Martin King: You know, working on refrigeration. You can work for the compressor manuf- you know, the, the component manufacturers. Those all have different channels that, um, that y- you couldn't even imagine. Uh, you know, for example, um, I'm, you know, I- I'm doing some consulting now and, and I'm doing work with, um, MRI, uh, service companies, where they, they go out and fix MRIs.
[00:36:22] Martin King: Well, every MRI has a chiller on it, right? Oh. You know, so, so every CT, every linear accelerator, every data center uses chilled water. I mean, it just goes into all these different things. So I'd say, um, the fact that it's gonna be around, it's, uh, it's... You know, you're, you're probably not gonna get replaced by AI.
[00:36:41] Martin King: The money is way better than you find online, uh, and that can go on. It's a whole other thing I can discuss. Um, and the, uh, opportunities that you can, you can expect if you apply yourself and keep your antenna up-
[00:36:57] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm ...
[00:36:57] Martin King: for what's out there, uh, are probably the three biggest things that I can think of that, um, that make the argument for trades these days.
[00:37:05] RC Victorino: I think that's a, it's a nice, uh... You brought it back to the antenna up, which, which led you to how you got into what you got into with chillers anyway- ... 'cause you kept your, kept- Right ... your antenna up. So I, I think that's a, that's a great lesson from this episode, is, is to just, you know, look up. You know?
[00:37:19] RC Victorino: Always be looking around, looking for those opportunities, 'cause they're not necessarily gonna be shoved in your face, and you just might have to find them as they float by es- essentially. Mm-hmm. Let's, uh, shift into lightning round here, where I ask you a few questions and you just answer with whatever comes to your mind first.
[00:37:33] RC Victorino: No pressure. All right. Should I- Watch the-
[00:37:34] Martin King: Should I stretch a little bit, or is this-
[00:37:36] RC Victorino: It's possible. It's possible Okay. All right. Some of the other responses, I don't know. It's hard to c- it's hard to compete. All right. Here we go. Yeah. Uh, what's one tool you can't live without? It could be on the job or off the job.
[00:37:47] Martin King: My multimeter.
[00:37:48] RC Victorino: Multimeter. Okay. How come?
[00:37:51] Martin King: Uh, because e- most problems in my world, uh, with machinery are electrical based. It's always electrical.
[00:37:59] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:38:00] Martin King: So understanding how to use a meter is, is a huge deal. Multimeter.
[00:38:04] RC Victorino: Awesome. What's one thing you've built that you're most proud of? It could be work-related.
[00:38:08] RC Victorino: It could be something-
[00:38:09] Martin King: Uh, I have a patent on economizer technology for, for process chillers, and that-
[00:38:15] RC Victorino: Oh, wow ...
[00:38:15] Martin King: that was an interesting build. Yeah.
[00:38:18] RC Victorino: Well, that's another story. That's very interesting. Okay.
[00:38:21] Martin King: Yeah.
[00:38:21] RC Victorino: The biggest misconception people have about the trades?
[00:38:26] Martin King: Uh, it's, it's hard work and doesn't pay well.
[00:38:32] RC Victorino: Okay. Then what's one thing that gets you fired up about the future of the trades?
[00:38:38] Martin King: Mm, boy, that's a really good one. Um, the marriage of technology, the technology that's coming out now, um, and how it'll augment what we're currently doing, like I said.
[00:38:52] RC Victorino: Yeah, and I really like that actually, the way that you outlined that.
[00:38:54] RC Victorino: And, uh, I mean, obviously you got some great intel from folks out of Microsoft as well on that, on these stages, I guess, if you will, of, of technology and AI. Uh, that really shed some light for me as well, scarily, but also just in general, it was nice. Uh, so Martin, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate you.
[00:39:11] RC Victorino: And, uh, where can folks learn more about Skilled- the work that you're doing, essentially?
[00:39:14] Martin King: skilledtraderescue.com is- Yeah ... uh, they can reach me there. I'm also on, uh, LinkedIn, all over the place. I, I'm, I'm out there.
[00:39:22] RC Victorino: Yeah, yeah. And we'll add those to the show notes as well. So, uh, thanks so much for joining us.
[00:39:27] RC Victorino: Uh, and for everyone else, until next time, keep building.
[00:39:30] Martin King: All right. Thanks, thanks for doing what you're doing, RC.
[00:39:32] RC Victorino: Thank you so much.
[00:39:33] Martin King: Take care. Bye-bye.