The trades don’t just need workers—they need support. Josh Vitale shares how Project BUILT is changing the conversation around mental health and addiction in the trades.
In this episode of Commercial Grade, host RC Victorino sits down with Josh Vitale, founder of Project BUILT, to have an honest conversation about addiction, mental health, and what the trades are getting wrong—and right—when it comes to supporting their people.
Josh grew up in the construction world and followed a familiar path many never talk about: high pressure, long hours, silence around mental health, and ultimately addiction. After hitting rock bottom, Josh chose recovery—and turned that experience into a mission to help others in the industry do the same.
Together, RC and Josh unpack the cultural challenges that make mental health conversations difficult in the trades, the generational shifts happening on job sites, and why leadership plays a critical role in creating safer, healthier work environments. Josh explains how Project Built approaches mental health differently—through peer support, family retreats, crisis planning, and training leaders to recognize when someone needs help.
This episode doesn’t sugarcoat the realities of the work—but it offers a real path forward for an industry built on strength that often forgets vulnerability.
In this episode you’ll hear:
(00:00) Understanding the Stress in the Trades
(00:31) Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
(01:02) Josh Vitale’s Journey into the Trades
(04:56) Challenges and Realizations in the Industry
(07:45) Hitting Rock Bottom and Seeking Help
(11:43) The Birth of Project Built
(18:26) Scaling Project Built’s Impact
(25:46) A Young Man’s Struggle and Asking for Help
(26:04) Generational Differences in Mental Health
(26:30) Challenges Facing Younger Trade Workers
(29:04) The Role of Superintendents in Mental Health
(29:43) Training Leaders to Support Their Teams
(31:00) Creating a Supportive Work Environment
(32:10) Judgment, Recovery, and Personal Reflection
(37:40) Why Every Company Needs a Crisis Plan
(40:00) Advice to a Younger Self
(41:14) The Future of Mental Health in the Trades
(42:17) Lightning Round: Personal Insights
(45:45) Getting Involved with Project Built
RC’s LinkedIn
Josh Vitale on LinkedIn
Learn more about Project Built
Learn more at BuildOps.com
[00:00:00] Josh Vitale: You're so stressed because you're, you're putting yourself and your body on the line all day long. There's not a good opportunity for you to release that stress. You know, typically it's a six pack or 12 pack or 24 pack of beers. They don't teach you about breath work. They don't teach you about mindfulness when you're going through an apprenticeship program.
[00:00:17] Josh Vitale: We work really hard, but then we party really hard afterwards and, and that's just acceptable behavior. I raised the white flag and I thought, you know what? I can't do this myself. And I, I asked for help.
[00:00:31] RC Victorino: Welcome everyone to Commercial Grade, a podcast that honors the unsung heroes of the trades. I'm your host, AIE Victorino. And quickly I wanna give a, a shout out to build ops for making this podcast possible. Today we are speaking with Josh Vitali, the founder of Project Built, and we're gonna dive into what that means and his, his story and how that even came to be.
[00:00:49] RC Victorino: Uh, it's to be fair, Josh, a conversation that I'm, I'm looking forward to having, but also wish that we didn't have to have. So with that, welcome to the show. Good morning, rc. Yeah. Thank you for having me. No problem. So, uh, a question that I, I always ask to everyone, uh, to kick it off is just tell us a little bit of your backstory.
[00:01:07] RC Victorino: Essentially, how did you get into the trades?
[00:01:11] Josh Vitale: Well, I got into the trades, so, you know, if we go back to the beginning, I, I grew up in a construction family. My dad was a drywall contractor. Uh, so, you know, I started cleaning tools and stocking mud at, uh, well, I don't know, probably about, about the time I could walk.
[00:01:26] Josh Vitale: Um, but he had always taught me that I needed to go into, uh, you know, into college, right? Get out of the construction trades. He's like, you're, you're too smart to do this. You don't want to be digging ditches your whole life. Like all of our teachers teach us, right? They demonize, uh, you know, working with your hands and doing construction.
[00:01:43] Josh Vitale: So, uh, I went to college. After high school and, uh, and really didn't enjoy it. I, I, mm-hmm. I wasn't loving the college life, and at the time, uh, my mom had remarried a gentleman that was in, uh, line work, so he was a journeyman lineman, and I just thought that sounded cool, you know, flying around in helicopters and climbing stuff and making good money.
[00:02:03] Josh Vitale: So, uh, I, I quit college at my sophomore year and joined the IBEW and became a journeyman lineman.
[00:02:10] RC Victorino: What was the, was there any backlash or fear when you were quitting college your sophomore year? What kind of conversations were happening a around your peripheral when you were doing that?
[00:02:21] Josh Vitale: Uh, you know, I, I didn't have great relationship with my parents, but they were, you know, uh, my mom was supportive because obviously she had married a lineman and it, they lived a good life.
[00:02:31] Josh Vitale: He made good money and so she was scared because it's kind of a scary thing for your kid to go play around with high voltage electricity. But, uh, sure. You know, I think for the most part, uh, the, the, the friends that I had and the, the group that I was around thought it was a terrible idea to leave college and go work construction.
[00:02:47] Josh Vitale: 'cause that's obviously. They were, uh, you know, immersed in that, uh, academia culture, right? But, uh, but then after I was the guy that was, you know, had a career and, and making good money, then it turned out that, you know, while they were on their, uh, you know, their path of struggling to find a job and barely making ends meet for the next few years while I was thriving financially, you know, I was the one that was picking up their bar tabs when we were hanging out after work.
[00:03:13] RC Victorino: What were you, uh. I, I know its sophomore year. I don't think you necessarily have to have picked a major or concentration, but did you, did you have an intention of what you thought you were going to be doing when you went to college?
[00:03:25] Josh Vitale: Well, yeah. In those two years I had gone from, when I started I was gonna be a CIA agent, so I started studying criminal justice, you know, and then, and then discovered how.
[00:03:37] Josh Vitale: You know, I, I just, I didn't resonate with what we were doing as a, as a criminal justice system. Okay. So I, I can remember my first criminology class and being like, Hey, this is not, uh, not the America that I thought that I was jumping into. Interesting. And probably not the institution that I want to join.
[00:03:54] Josh Vitale: So then I shifted to forestry. So I went from, you know, CIA to forestry because I grew up in, in the mountains of Arizona. And that was interesting to me. And I love the outdoors. Yeah, but people weren't getting jobs in that, so then I shifted to hotel. Restaurant management was my third choice. Yeah.
[00:04:12] RC Victorino: Well that's interesting.
[00:04:13] RC Victorino: Hotel restaurant management. 'cause that's very much a service role. Yeah. And I think we're gonna get into that in a little, and also just by the way, life in the trades is al also, I, I think some people who, who may not be in the trades, don't realize to what level and extent service is quite literally in the DNA of of the trades to begin with.
[00:04:28] RC Victorino: Uh, but then. As we, as we advance a little bit beyond that to what you're doing right now, I think that that leads the foundation exactly. For, for kind of like your DNA certainly in, in, in service of others. Uh, but so yeah, you, you were talking about how like at some point, you know, your, your college friends were looking to you to pay for the bar tabs, so things seem to be going great.
[00:04:47] RC Victorino: You got a career, you're making money, so I'm coming in and talking to you. I'm like, wow, you, you have a good life. Correct. This is, this is correct. You, you're having a good life.
[00:04:56] Josh Vitale: Uh, well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily call it a good life, so, yeah. You know, the, the peripheral things that are happening while you're creating this steady income through construction is, you know, complete disconnection from family.
[00:05:09] Josh Vitale: You're traveling all the time. There's a lot of, of drug and alcohol misuse. Within the crews and, you know, it's just part of the culture, right? So, um, we, we work really hard, but then we party really hard afterwards and, and that's just acceptable behavior, uh, in the construction industry and in line work in general.
[00:05:26] Josh Vitale: You know, you just, or, and, and I don't know, and maybe that's ubiquitous across all industries, but I think it's, you know, obviously particularly prevalent within construction that, you know, we, we work long hours, we work really hard, but then afterwards we go out and party really hard too.
[00:05:43] RC Victorino: Why do you think it is ubiquitous in, in, in construction, in the trades?
[00:05:48] Josh Vitale: You know, I think there's a number of factors. I think it's, uh, you know, it's a lot of folks that weren't good in school, so, um Right. You know, we, we don't have the, the structure there, but then also the stress that is involved, you know. One of the things that, um, shows up a lot in, in the power line industry is, you know, you're so stressed because you're, you're putting yourself and your body on the line all day long that, that there's not a good opportunity for you to.
[00:06:19] Josh Vitale: Um, to release that stress. And so oftentimes we turn to chemicals for numbing because we're so amped up for 12 hours out of the day to transition away from that amped up state. You've gotta do something to do that. And they don't teach you about breath work, they don't teach about mindfulness when you're going through an apprenticeship program.
[00:06:39] Josh Vitale: So, you know, typically it's a six pack or 12 pack or 24 pack of beers that sort of, you know. Get the system down regulated and, and, and so then it becomes something that you do every day to try to, um, I don't know, I guess sort of numb that, that constant, you know, stress of doing the work that we do.
[00:07:01] RC Victorino: At some point then it seems like, uh, because where you are today, clearly there was some sort of.
[00:07:08] RC Victorino: Moment of, of reflection, or perhaps it was rock bottom, whatever it may be, there was a moment that allowed you to then proceed to move on. I'd, I'd like to get into, to what happened to change. So you're saying you're making good money, however, you know, like things are not as ro as they say, you're, you're in the machine.
[00:07:26] RC Victorino: You're in the machine that's basically doing this sort of like routine of working hard and then playing hard and then like I'm sure at some point what you're seeing, like some sort of physical like. Limitations or are you getting, like, getting more detachment from your family? What's happening that's, that's eventually leading you to be like, well, this is not what I want to have for my life.
[00:07:44] Josh Vitale: Yeah. For me, so, you know, um, that childhood that I referred to earlier on was not the best. Right? So I'm coming out of that with, uh, complex post-traumatic stress disorder. I've got these mental illness basically that I'm living with, that I'm medicating or self-medicating for. Mm-hmm. Using drugs and alcohol and risk taking and, you know, that that kind of behavior, uh, was part of, of my journey.
[00:08:08] Josh Vitale: And then, you know, over the 15, 20 years of just. Following that sort of, you know, timeline, right? It just gets more and more pressure built up. And then eventually, you know, you, I, I turned around and I was, you know, chemically addicted to alcohol and, uh, you know, not having any, any solid relationships and a bunch of, uh, broken.
[00:08:29] Josh Vitale: You know, romantic relationships that lasted a few years and then imploded because I didn't know how to, you know, really make that, that whole thing work and continue traveling and working and partying and doing those things. So yeah, for me, you know, it is a rock bottom. And so about 10 years ago I had reached a point where my mental health and my physical health and my familial health and my relationships had all gotten so dark and so disjointed and, and, um, you know, I completely lost myself and I was.
[00:08:58] Josh Vitale: You know, hardcore addicted to alcohol. I had to drink, uh, every day to really just to get through. And so, you know, I reached a point finally at, at that, at that edge, right in that dark spot where I, I raised the white flag and I thought, you know what? I can't do this myself. And I. I asked for help. And I think that's one of the most courageous things that somebody that's in active addiction can do is to say, Hey, I don't have the answers.
[00:09:21] Josh Vitale: Maybe somebody else does. And I was able to find a lot of great help and, uh, I went to rehab and, you know, got some help there. Met some great people. Uh, I met a guy Sherman master, who's a doctor in Richmond, Virginia that really helped me out and got me the therapy that I needed. Uh, I started doing EMDR therapy, which helped me to kind of heal that, uh, that.
[00:09:41] Josh Vitale: That PTSD symptoms that I was having, the feelings of impending doom, the night terrors, the, um, you know, just the, the, the, the things that were disconnecting me from who I truly was that were not necessarily my fault, but, um, it was, it was my responsibility to do the work that needed to be done to heal those.
[00:10:01] RC Victorino: Uh, it is courageous and it is true grit to, to ask for help and to admit you don't have help. But it's also challenging to like. I can't just literally turn in my room here. I need help. Like there needs to be a direction for where I'm asking, so how did you know where to turn to or who to turn to, and how can other people do the same thing?
[00:10:23] RC Victorino: Like where do you go if you need help? What's, what's, what are those resources?
[00:10:27] Josh Vitale: That's, that was one of the scariest things, is that when, when you've lived that way, or for me, let me just talk from I, sure. So I had lived that way my entire life, and I didn't know where to turn. I didn't know where the answers were.
[00:10:39] Josh Vitale: Um, luckily, you know, there were some people that were available in my life, like my mom was, was important to that because she is, you know, long-term sobriety and, and worked through those, uh, those things herself. And so when, when I was ready, I, I just said, Hey, you know, like. I can't do this myself. I need help.
[00:10:57] Josh Vitale: You know, where did, where did you go? And I ended up, you know, getting connected to a treatment center in Chandler, Arizona, where my mom actually got sober like 25 years prior. So, um, you know, it's about finding those, those relationships or those people in your life that may have some insight. And, and that's really what we're trying to do with Project Built.
[00:11:16] Josh Vitale: And what I'm trying to do with my life right now is to make, make those. Relationships or, or the, the interventions more available so that when someone does recognize that they're in crisis, that, that they know where to turn. 'cause I didn't, you know, I was, I was kind of grasping at straws and hoping to find it anywhere that I could.
[00:11:35] Josh Vitale: Luckily I had some people in my, in my close family that I'd still, you know, maintained good relationships with that could help me through that process.
[00:11:43] RC Victorino: Yeah. Let's talk about the project built. So, so it's fair to say right now you're no longer in the trades. In the field, in the trades, I should say. Yes, that's correct.
[00:11:55] RC Victorino: Why did you leave? How did you leave? And then perhaps that leads us to project build.
[00:12:00] Josh Vitale: Yeah. So, um, you know, I was, uh, working as a superintendent. I like to say I wa I'm a recovering superintendent, which, um, you know it, and then, and that's not, uh, I mean, it, it's funny, but it's not a joke. Like, you know, having that superintendent mindset where you're managing things and you're running things and you know, being a part of the toxic construction culture that's created, what we're seeing now, these deaths of despair, it's a big process.
[00:12:24] Josh Vitale: And so, March of this year, I left. Really actively working on construction sites. I was on a large project, you know, building a semiconductor manufacturing plant when I was sort of thrown into this work. So if you go back to, um, the beginning of 2022, where, you know, in the middle of COVID, um, we had discovered that there's this epidemic of suicide in the construction trades.
[00:12:49] Josh Vitale: And I felt particularly called to do something about it. And on the project that I was on. We started really, I started researching, you know, what's, what's out there, what's going on with. With the construction trades, why is this something that we're seeing on such epidemic levels? You know, why is there so many overdoses and suicides within construction and, and, and then started testing ways for us to intervene and, and do something about that?
[00:13:15] Josh Vitale: And so, uh, I became someone who was called upon to do intervention. So I started, you know, doing suicide interventions on the job site. Where we were getting people to the care that they needed. And then, and, and then from that, doing that work or being thrust into that work, you know, we started to see the ideas for project built coming about, which was filling the gaps.
[00:13:38] Josh Vitale: You know, what, what are the main problems that construction workers are seeing that or experiencing that we are seeing? That we can work on directly. And so, uh, you know, I joined Construction Suicide Prevention Week, which is a national nonprofit that raises awareness. But I wanted to take it a step further.
[00:13:55] Josh Vitale: So as a builder, I wanna solve the problem. I don't just want to talk about the problem, right? And so we created Project Built to actually get in there and solve the problems that we're seeing. And the main one. That I think every, every intervention that I've been on, every superintendent or safety director or worker in the tools that I talk to, what they're experiencing most deeply is a disconnection from their family and from their community.
[00:14:20] Josh Vitale: And so that's why we're trying to use Project built as an opportunity to go in and, and do something about that disconnection piece.
[00:14:27] RC Victorino: So yeah, dive into that. So, so, and, and that's interesting 'cause you referenced that earlier on as well, that that was a, that was. A trigger for you and an issue for you as well, this disconnect from your family and, and so how does Project built do that?
[00:14:41] RC Victorino: What exactly are you doing that that empowers and, and creates this, this opportunity for folks to remain connected to those social circles that are so important to them.
[00:14:50] Josh Vitale: Yeah, our first area of focus is a family retreat. So we've organized a, a, a retreat that we're holding in in late June of 2026, and then we're gonna take 10 families, all expenses paid, fly them out to Colorado, and then take them through a five day retreat where they get to, you know.
[00:15:10] Josh Vitale: Heal the what's going on in their family, that disconnection piece, right? We're gonna teach them all the things that we've learned as a family healing and construction, and inject that into their lives and create a little tribe, right, of 10 families that we can then follow for a couple of years and make sure that they have the support and service and connection that they need to move from wherever they're at now to a more connected and healthy space.
[00:15:34] Josh Vitale: Now we're not, we're not the experts, right? So what we've done is. We've taken our journey and the things that we've learned, and then we've found experts that really fill the gaps, like understanding, you know, uh, child-led therapy and, and understanding, you know, what individuals need and couples therapy and, and putting all of those pieces together into a five day journey that gives people something that they can walk out of there with the practices and the tools and the rituals that are needed to really reinvent their family.
[00:16:02] RC Victorino: Hmm. And beyond the, you. And you mentioned this earlier, 'cause you said you were in part of EMDR therapy and then you talked about some other things as well. So I wanna talk about all the different, different types of therapies that perhaps you've experienced or, or are trying to include in this sort of, uh, uh, evolution of, of, or I guess it's revisit of what it means to, to be a healthy person in the trades.
[00:16:24] RC Victorino: Uh, so what are some of the things that you, that you have been exposed to or believe might be helpful to other people's types of therapies?
[00:16:32] Josh Vitale: Well, you know, I, I've tried 'em all. So, uh, yeah, I like to say that, uh, you know, I had, I, I, I had so much to, to heal from that I really had to try a little bit of everything and that that could be, you know, uh, like anywhere from, you know, traditional talk therapy to, um, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy to, you know, even more esoteric versions of things like psychedelic assisted therapy and, um, you know.
[00:17:00] Josh Vitale: Breath work, spiritual stuff. There's, there's really, and, and I think the, ultimately what it is, is, is finding what resonates for you personally as an individual and then for your family too. Like, uh, you know, one of the, one of the most transformational pieces that we've, we've run across recently is that Amy and I have been involved with Relational Life Therapy as a couple.
[00:17:21] Josh Vitale: And it's a guy, Terry Real, that, uh, that. Created this program and it, it's really incredible. The therapist kind of gets involved and, and will even pick sides. So, uh, he has a couple of great books that are out there. If your listeners are into that sort of thing, um, you know, it, it, he just, so Terry Real is his name, but, uh, we found a lot of great healing within his work.
[00:17:42] Josh Vitale: And so, uh, you know, what we're trying to do with the retreat though, is to not turn it into like this like therapy junction where we're gonna like, you know, try to fix you all in this five day space. What we wanna do is. Bring in professionals that are part of the group. And so you might go fly fishing with the person that you're gonna see in the afternoon to talk about what's going on with your family, or, you know, we're, we're gonna have them be a part of the community that is all coming together to heal.
[00:18:09] Josh Vitale: So we're trying to, you know, instead of having people behind a desk in a lab coat, these are people that you're gonna interact with and that you know in your day and have dinner with. And you know that we're all humans having this human experience and that if we're going to heal, we're gonna do it together.
[00:18:26] RC Victorino: But how do you scale this, right? Like, so a retreat is fantastic. It's a handful of families doing this, but how is this scaled to the, to, because as you, there's a epidemic of, of mental illness in the treat. It's, it's proportionally just like it's outta this world, right? So how, right, in order to really address this at the way that, to, to meet the demand, if you will, for lack of a better phrase.
[00:18:49] RC Victorino: Um, how do you scale your efforts? How do you make this be something that is, that is. Talked about, thought about, and and applied at job sites across America.
[00:19:00] Josh Vitale: You know, I think, yeah, you know, I think all of 2024. What I did was I tried to, uh. You know, have this idea that I was gonna meet people where they're at.
[00:19:10] Josh Vitale: And that also means meeting companies where they're at.
[00:19:13] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:19:13] Josh Vitale: And I, I, I think that, you know, what we have to do is prove, and we can do that through following the data and, you know, and, and having studies that, that. That follow these folks out and we point to the research that's been done for Project Sanctuary, which is, uh, a great charity that helps military families do the same thing.
[00:19:33] Josh Vitale: And they've been around for 18 years now. And, and, and Heather, Ellie Ray is the CEO and founder of Project Sanctuary and she's advising us on our process. We're actually going out to Project Sanctuary to participate in the retreat next month. So. Really exciting stuff and it's great. And I wouldn't be where I'm at right now without a lot of wonderful mentors like Heather and Mark McGinnis from the Seal Legacy Charity, but our foundation.
[00:19:57] Josh Vitale: Um, but what we're trying to do to scale it is to say, okay, like, uh, think of the, think of the retreat as an incubator for intervention. So when we get this group of 10 families together. And we show how much positive impact the work that we're doing with that group has. Then we can take those interventions and we can say, Hey, okay, everybody in construction, these are things that you can do.
[00:20:21] Josh Vitale: And you know, if you wanna send a number of families from your company to learn these things, then maybe you can do a retreat and we can facilitate that. So everything that we do is to systematize it in a way. That is scalable. So we have, we have data that we track and we make it something that, where we can take these interventions and then share it with the broader community so that they can go out and use this to help their people.
[00:20:44] RC Victorino: So, listen, I, I am, um,
[00:20:49] RC Victorino: I am personally have a mind of like, um, open exploration of, of betterment. So. I hold no judgment of any kind of therapy or idea that might improve my wellbeing in any, any way. Like, who am I to judge? Right? But that's not everyone. Uh, and I'm, I don't wanna paint the, the, the trades with a single stroke by any means, but I think it's fair to say that like, at least as a conception that, or a perception I should say, that, that folks.
[00:21:24] RC Victorino: Perhaps many folks in the trades are not as open-minded to the unconventional even. Even in everything you just said. By the way, the most conventionalist talk therapy, and yet that still is not necessarily like something people like are open to how, how, first of all, how much of like friction and like pushback do you experience from folks on the trades when you're trying to get this message out?
[00:21:47] RC Victorino: And if you do, how do you address that? How do you help them come along this change curve with you?
[00:21:53] Josh Vitale: Yeah, that's a great question. I, you know, uh, obviously we're trying to figure that out, and I, there is friction, there's, you know, I, I felt friction. The reason that I didn't get help for 15 or 20 years is because I had this, you know, uh, uh, hallucination that if I were to ask for help, that I would end up like Jack Nicholson and one flew over, the one flew over the cuckoo's Nest, like getting electroshock therapy in a place somewhere.
[00:22:18] Josh Vitale: But what the reality is, is that. It doesn't have to come through talk therapy. It doesn't have to come through a conventional sense. We can do this as, you know, groups of people that are supporting each other. So we, uh, we talk a lot about peer support and creating peer support net networks within your company or within your own community, right?
[00:22:39] Josh Vitale: Do you have your own peer support network? Do you have a crisis plan for yourself and for your family, for your kids, for your parents as they get older? What is your crisis plan? So there's a lot of work that we can do that are, that's outside of the clinical sense of things that, that, you know, that we've lost over the years because we don't have that, that communal sense of, of togetherness.
[00:23:02] Josh Vitale: And so we're looking to try to find ways to create that. And so, you know, Amy and I do that a lot with, with our, you know, just our group of friends and people that we interact with. Here locally and, and then, and then, you know, I use, you know, digital methods for doing that, like peer support groups where we meet on Zoom.
[00:23:18] Josh Vitale: We're talking about what's going on in our lives and challenging, challenging each other, you know, to be better individuals or to have more impacted society. So I think there's a lot of ways that we can get to the same kind of transformational behavior without having to sit in a therapist's office or on a, on a telehealth appointment to do that.
[00:23:38] Josh Vitale: And so. I think really what we're doing is we're experimenting, you know, with our own lives and then obviously sharing that with other people so that we can figure out what the best way to get to that would be.
[00:23:49] RC Victorino: Hmm.
[00:23:50] Josh Vitale: Do you think that,
[00:23:50] RC Victorino: um, do you think that the overall culture of the trades is, is shifting to a more open.
[00:24:02] RC Victorino: Open to these kind of like open to your emotions, open to feelings, open to being like aware, self-aware of your wellbeing, or do you think it's still like rooted in the same kind of the shut up and put up sort of mentality that, that it's known to have been.
[00:24:18] Josh Vitale: Yeah, I, I mean the, the average age of a construction worker right now is 55.
[00:24:23] Josh Vitale: Yeah. So, you know, when we're talking about boomers, they're not ready to talk about their emotions, right. There's a generational gap. But if you talk about Gen Z, like 92% of Gen Zs that are, that are asked about it, say that they should be able to talk about their mental health at work. And are you, are you
[00:24:39] RC Victorino: fearful then that the Gen Z and coming into the, into the trades right now is.
[00:24:44] RC Victorino: Are not being, that's great that they're open to this, right? But they're going into a, a field that is run by and, and led by the baby boomers. And again, not to paint a single brush, but this is true generational. There are generational things that happen that 'cause of the way we grew up. And so for sure, baby boomers are less likely and less inclined to speak about their feelings, right?
[00:25:04] RC Victorino: So like, if those are the leaders of the trades right now, and then we have an entire class of generation that's more open to it, are they? Are they at risk of being basically pressured into an existing culture, or do they have the opportunity to reshape that culture? How do you see it with, with your boots on the ground?
[00:25:23] Josh Vitale: Yeah, so, you know, I'll, I'll use an example. So I had a, I talked about those crisis interventions that I was doing on the job site. I was doing those crisis interventions and you know, some of them would be older guys that, that were not comfortable talking about their feelings. But then I had some young guys in there too, and I, I had this one apprentice carpenter.
[00:25:45] Josh Vitale: He was 19. Uh, his girlfriend had just broken up with him. His mom was in the hospital. Grandma just died and he had no problem. He emailed the superintendent, the project superintendent, and said, Hey, I'm thinking about hurting myself. Can you help me? And it was, you know, it was second nature for him to just be able to talk about that.
[00:26:04] Josh Vitale: So we pulled him aside, we got him into a private space, started talking about what was going on, and, and, and got him to open up and, and, and so that's the, that's what we see is a younger generation. Mm-hmm. Which we raised, for example. Right. I have a 20-year-old. Yeah. We raised them to be able to talk about their feelings and, and to not take the kind of toxic culture that we came up through the trades.
[00:26:27] Josh Vitale: Experiencing. So that's why we see a lot of them coming in. And then I think the, the average duration of, of a genzer in the trades is about two years before they walk away because I think that toxic culture pushes them out. But yeah, so there is a danger. There's a danger that we're going to. There's a danger that we're gonna ruin those folks and that beautiful thing that we've created as parents, and we bring 'em into the trade and then we, and then we ruin it by, you know, getting them immersed in our own, uh, way of doing things that is not working.
[00:26:57] Josh Vitale: Obviously the deaths of despair are telling us that, right? Those are the canaries in the coal mine that tell us that our environment is toxic. So, you know, the people that that stay in the trades are, you know, they're in danger of. Shifting to that culture in order to, you know, persist in it and then the ones that can't or won't they leave.
[00:27:18] Josh Vitale: So yeah, we have a, we have a huge hurdle right now to get over and that is how do we get the folks that are entrenched in that sort of mindset to shift to one of accepting the fact that we're gonna have to be able to talk about what's going on in order to move forward.
[00:27:37] RC Victorino: I mean, it's, it's, uh. Like not to shift the conversation to, to the impending the labor gap, basically.
[00:27:46] RC Victorino: Like this is a different con, different conversation, however, right? Like if you're trying to close a labor gap and you've got a younger generation who's expressing a more, uh, invested interest in the trades then, then we've seen in a couple decades for sure. Yet, they're like, and so they're willing, they understand the work.
[00:28:06] RC Victorino: We're hoping, we're assuming works, we're, we think, so they understand that, you know, it's real work. And, and, you know, it's not sitting behind a desk as I, as I describe myself, sit behind a desk and just like, type on a keyboard, keyboard all day long, right? Um, in, in my air, in my climate control, perfectly, perfectly, uh, comfortable room here.
[00:28:22] RC Victorino: Uh. But if they're, if they're introduced to an environment that like all of a sudden like is counter to what they're comfortable with, like at the core, right? Like, like now this is becoming more than like it's cold outside. It's quite literally it's your core and your spirit, then yes, they're gonna leave.
[00:28:35] RC Victorino: And so that becomes more detrimental to the trees 'cause we're trying to close their labor gap. And so it's to the advantage of these leaders to ensure that they are. Well equipped to handle, uh, something like this if, if for no other reason. There's countless other reasons, is because you need to keep, you need to retain talent.
[00:28:54] RC Victorino: Right, right. I I, I do have a, this person, this, this, I think you said he was a 20-year-old, what have you, who emailed their, their superintendent. So I wanna know more about that superintendent. Not necessarily specifically that superintendent, but in general the superintendents. And you had mentioned, you know, your recovering superintendent yourself.
[00:29:13] RC Victorino: Yeah. So those seems to be the people that really, truly need to be empowered to know how to handle that. Like if you're getting, if you're getting young people who are more apt and comfortable raising their hands and asking for help, that's fantastic. But if they know that they're gonna, they should be going to their supervisor, which they should.
[00:29:30] RC Victorino: That's logical, like step. Those supervisors need to know what the hell to do. How do you ensure it? How do they ensure that they have the comfort, uh, and the confidence to, to do the right thing next?
[00:29:43] Josh Vitale: Yeah, I, you know, it, it comes down to training, right? So most of us ended up in leadership, especially in the trades, uh, because we were good at our job, but then they move you into a position where you're not even doing your job anymore.
[00:29:55] Josh Vitale: You're doing the job of managing people, doing your job, and, and there's no training there. So, you know, companies, right? And, and leaders of companies have an acute responsibility to make sure that their leaders have. The soft skills training and the ability to deal with trauma because you know when you get.
[00:30:14] Josh Vitale: When you get given a crew and you know, like I, I took my first foreman job at like 22 and I think it's just 'cause I showed up on time. You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah. Um, and maybe I'm downplaying a little bit, but you know, I was running a crew of guys that were probably in their, you know, mid forties and fifties and trying to get them aligned with what's going on and, and.
[00:30:33] Josh Vitale: You become their therapist and you become their financial advisor, and you become all these things that no one's ever given you any, any training on. And so, you know, now that we're, we're talking to leaders about what to do, it's like, yeah, how do we set these folks up for ongoing training? It's not just one thing, like where you, you know, you can have a speaker come in and talk to them about.
[00:30:54] Josh Vitale: Leadership once a year, and that's gonna, you know, that's gonna transform the way that they're interacting with their people. It's something that has to become a part of the culture. You've gotta create an environment where you have one knowledge transfer. So as you know, we get new people in, we have mentors that are doing that.
[00:31:11] Josh Vitale: We have peer support networks, so there is people that you can talk to without, you know, the fear of reprisal if you're going through something or mm-hmm. You're struggling with misuse. You can actually talk to someone that can help you walk through that. It's. You know, there's, there's just so many things that go into creating an environment or an ecology where people can thrive and continue being human and live the experience while being good at their job and learning how to do it better and move up the ladder and creating opportunities for them.
[00:31:40] Josh Vitale: So, you know, that's, that's one of the things that we're studying right now. We've got a great group of people that have come together to try to figure that out. Like, what, what an ecologically healthy construction. You know, company and job site look like, and we're trying to, you know, we're trying to create or paint that picture so that we can say, this is, this is what done looks like.
[00:32:01] Josh Vitale: And then once we do that, then we can go in and start fixing the, the individual pieces that that need to be fixed.
[00:32:08] RC Victorino: Hmm. Going back to the, when, when you like reached out to your mom and whoever it was in, in your social circles and said you needed help that you can't do this anymore. Like this is, this is bigger than who you are.
[00:32:19] RC Victorino: Uh, you had mentioned like leading up to that it had taken you so long because, you know, the Jack Nichols, like one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, but I also like wonder, like, uh, to what fear you might've had about judgment. Of your peers on, on the job. And how much did that fear come to fruition?
[00:32:38] RC Victorino: Like, were you afraid of like, being judged by your colleagues? And if so, were you in the end when you ended up finally asking for help?
[00:32:48] Josh Vitale: You know, uh, yeah, I think, I think you get, you do get judged. You know, I think one of the things that makes it easy to stay stuck is you can always point to someone that you're working with that's worse off than you are.
[00:32:59] Josh Vitale: You know, I was working with guys that were active alcoholics for 20, 30 years. Yeah. And were just continuing to do the same thing. So it was easy to like go, well I don't, I'm not as bad as that guy. Yeah. Or that other guy. So, you know, even though I know I'm miserable, like they're more miserable. So maybe it's not that bad.
[00:33:17] Josh Vitale: And so, you know, I think you do get judged. You get judged by people that aren't ready to do the work. You know, you get judged by people that aren't prepared to like. You know, admit the truth that, that they don't have control over it. That, that their life is not going the way that they want it to, and that, you know, they've burned all these bridges and their relationships are fractured and they don't talk to their kids.
[00:33:39] Josh Vitale: And, you know, they've got three divorces and, you know, they're complaining about child support, but, but yet they've not done anything to work on themselves to actually heal those relationships. So, you know, any, any amount of reprisal that you get from your peers is. Is so much less than the amount of, um, of positive, you know, reinforcement that you get from doing the work.
[00:34:03] Josh Vitale: And so, yeah, I, I, you know, getting sober and, and creating a life that is, you know, connected with my purpose and who I truly am and doing that, you know, for myself is, is so much greater and better than, you know, uh, acceptance of some people that are probably unhealthy. Living the life that I used to lead.
[00:34:26] RC Victorino: Is it, um, I, I'm thinking now and now I'm gonna. I'm gonna, well, fortunately, as you mentioned, many people in the trades are in the fifties, what have you, so perhaps I'm not aging myself so badly here, and everyone I, when I make this reference, everyone will know what I'm talking about. Uh, but I am dating myself a little bit here, but I'm, I'm thinking back to like Ted Danton's character in Cheers, right?
[00:34:46] RC Victorino: So he's an alcoholic. And what does he choose for? His next profession is to become a bartender, which is an interesting choice. And you're talking about, uh, mental illness and depression and all these things like that. And yet you're choosing a path where that's literally all around you. And so I, I wonder how challenging as now for you as an individual, as a human being, as Josh, like how challenging is it?
[00:35:12] RC Victorino: To be in that world? Or is it like the, is it the dose of medicine that you quite literally need to proceed every single day?
[00:35:21] Josh Vitale: Yeah, that's a another great question, and obviously, you know. The philosophy behind that is, uh, you know, I heard somebody say that you can't be depressed or anxious if you're helping someone else.
[00:35:33] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:35:33] Josh Vitale: And, and yeah, I think that is medicine for me. You know, um, actually, you know, altruism, I, I always say like, uh, if if being altruistic made me physically ill, I wouldn't do it anymore. I get a huge. A huge influx of, of good dopamine by helping other people. You know, some of the most powerful spiritual moments that I've ever had were sitting with someone that was in the middle of a crisis because I feel, you know, it, it's, it's flow state for me.
[00:36:01] Josh Vitale: I feel like. Yeah, like all of my experiences, all of the suffering that I went through has now for a purpose, and it's a purpose of healing someone else. I, I get goosebumps just thinking about it right now. Sitting with someone at their darkest moment and being able to transmute the suffering that I've experienced in my life into their moment of healing that can turn that around and get them headed in the right direction is one of the most beautiful things that I've ever experienced and I wanna continue experiencing now.
[00:36:29] Josh Vitale: Um, that comes with a ton of work ahead of time. Right. So it's having practices in place, it's being mindful, it's meditating every day. It's, it's, you know, having a backup plan in case someone that I'm working with does hurt themselves. You know, I've got a, I've got a therapist on speed dial so that if that does happen, I can walk through that with a support structure of people that are around me that can help me to not.
[00:36:53] Josh Vitale: You know, let my ego get involved in it and, and give myself that, that opportunity to like, uh, you know, have a God complex and think that I can save people. Mm-hmm. I don't believe that. That's what I'm here to do. I'm not here to save anybody, but what I can do is share my lived experience with them and my story with them, and help them to get to wherever it is that they're trying to go.
[00:37:14] Josh Vitale: You know, I think Simon Sinek talks about it. It's not about grabbing people and pulling 'em out of the hole. It's about getting down in the hole and sitting with them in the mud until they're ready to climb out themselves and then walking out with them.
[00:37:27] RC Victorino: Powerful, incredible. Uh, I, I do want to call out, this is maybe the second, maybe third time you mentioned in.
[00:37:34] RC Victorino: In this call, uh, a backup plan. Uh, and it just, in this time that you mentioned, it just really called out to me. 'cause like, actually thinking about it, I don't have this, I don't have, I don't have an evacuation plan for my house in case of fire, but one ought to have plans for emergencies, right? Like, I kind of do one.
[00:37:50] RC Victorino: We have a big volcano here that if it erupts. Good luck to me, but we know where we're going for that. Well, we don't, we don't think about that at the famil, at the self level. And that's interesting 'cause you mentioned like a backup plan. If something goes awry, you've got a, a therapist on speed dial. And we don't actually think about, like, we don't create these backup plans for like, the core functionality of living.
[00:38:10] RC Victorino: And I think that we need to do more of that. So I, I want to call out to you like that's bravo for that. Like, I, I don't do that, but for sure if, if. If it hits the fan, like, what, what then what am I going to do to make sure that I, I can tread water at least for, for the time being. So, um, just, just like for the listeners and watchers here, I, I think that's an important thing to call out is we do need to take stock of, of the what ifs and then what are the plan for those what ifs essentially.
[00:38:37] Josh Vitale: Yeah. Every one of us has a Mount St. Helen's that lives right here. And, you know, and, and it doesn't have to be like addiction or Right. Uh, whatever. It doesn't have to be like something that hap some horrible trauma that happened to you. It could be. You know, your parents struggling 'cause they're, they're getting older and they're now, they're gonna have to come live with you.
[00:38:57] Josh Vitale: And now they're, now they're trying to parent your kids and they're, they have dementia. Like there are so many of those Mount St. Helen's moments that happen in this human experience that we all have, that you've gotta have a plan. But there's some really easy, simple ways that you can get to that crisis plan that, you know, it doesn't have to look complicated.
[00:39:16] Josh Vitale: It's like. Having one or two close confidants that you call every week, you know, on the regular to talk about the good things, so that when you know shit hits the fan, it's a regular call that you're making. So, you know. It is good to have a crisis plan and, and you should, but your crisis plan should be your, your healthy life that you're living.
[00:39:36] Josh Vitale: Right. I love that. So yeah, being connected with your parents and your Yeah. Your close friends and family and having a community around you that is supportive. So there's lots of ways that you can do that, that that doesn't look like, you know, having a therapist, if that's not what works for you. Could be your golf buddies.
[00:39:52] Josh Vitale: Could be whatever.
[00:39:53] RC Victorino: Yeah. Uh, it. Fast, like rewind for like about like 10, 12 years I think is what it is. But rewind for, you know, until back to the moment where like you were a very different version of yourself that you are right now. Essentially. What kind of advice would you give that person now having done all the work that you've done and been in the trenches with yourself and with other people?
[00:40:15] RC Victorino: Right? What kind of advice would you give to that person, that younger version of yourself to help them along the way?
[00:40:22] Josh Vitale: You know, if I had to, if I had to go back 10 years before, I really kind of like raise the white flag, as I said earlier.
[00:40:29] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:29] Josh Vitale: Uh, I would say, you know, all of the things that you're hiding right now are going to be the things that you'll be most proud of eventually.
[00:40:39] Josh Vitale: And so, you know, it's, it, it like. The, the suffering, the, the abuse, the, um, wow, the, the addiction. Those are all of the things that actually make you a powerful person and will be part of the thing that helps you heal others.
[00:40:57] RC Victorino: Uh, I have, uh, yeah. Wow. That, that kind of hit me a little bit. Um, powerful. Ooh, uh. I would say we're gonna shift to lightning round in a moment, but I'll, I'll just say one thing here, and I mentioned this, kind of hinted at it, at the, at the beginning of, of the program here.
[00:41:14] RC Victorino: Um, I, I gotta, I gotta guess that you wish we didn't have to have this conversation, right? I gotta imagine that's, that's the case, right?
[00:41:23] Josh Vitale: Yeah. I, I cannot wait until this portion of the journey is, you know, like I'm obsolete, right? So, um. I, I, I don't know that that'll happen in my lifetime, but I would love it.
[00:41:35] Josh Vitale: Yeah, I would love it if this wasn't, you know, something that was necessary. You know, I, my vision is that we look back, you know, 20 years from now and construction is this bastion of, of re, you know. Rebuilding, you know, and I, and I truly believe that all of the tools that we need to heal the industry are already right there.
[00:41:55] Josh Vitale: We just have to activate them. And I think that, I think that builders are the ones that can do that. But yeah, I would, I would love to be out of a job. Uh, I can, you know, I can recreate myself obviously, so I would love to do that in a, in a, in a way that, that is less about saving lives and, and more about like doing something else.
[00:42:13] Josh Vitale: I don't know what it would be, but. Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:42:17] RC Victorino: All right. Well let's, uh, let's do a quick little lightning round here where I'll ask you a series of questions and you answer with whatever's top of mind for you, how that Okay. Yeah. Uh, what's one tool you can't live without? On the job or off?
[00:42:30] Josh Vitale: Um, I would say modeling vulnerability.
[00:42:35] RC Victorino: Oh, interesting. Modeling vulnerability because it helps other people feel more comfortable doing the same thing. Is that
[00:42:41] Josh Vitale: Yeah, it opens up this container man where stuff just starts pouring in.
[00:42:46] RC Victorino: Wow. And that just reminds me of the last thing you said previously about how everything you're, you wanna hide is.
[00:42:51] RC Victorino: Yeah, it's i'll, I'll take that line with me forever, I think. Uh, what's one thing you've built that you're most proud of?
[00:42:59] Josh Vitale: My family.
[00:43:02] RC Victorino: Jo, Josh's goal today, everyone is to just make me cry. That's, that's, that's the intention today. I didn't come.
[00:43:09] Josh Vitale: That's not conscious.
[00:43:12] RC Victorino: Biggest misconception people have about the trades.
[00:43:16] Josh Vitale: Um, the biggest misconception that people have about the trades, I would say, um, that they're dumb.
[00:43:26] RC Victorino: Hmm. Agreed, and you're not the only one to have said that for, for, for this question as well. So that's, that's saying something that's a recurring theme for people as well. That's obviously there's, there's truth.
[00:43:37] RC Victorino: Misconceived truth to that, which is frustrating. Uh, what is one thing that,
[00:43:42] Josh Vitale: yeah, maybe not conventionally and, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just gonna say, uh, the level of intelligence of people in the trades are, it's incredible and problem solving skills. Yeah. And, you know, street smarts and all of those things, like the things that make like, uh, you know, overall intelligence that we don't think about because of the way that we're trained to think about school.
[00:44:01] Josh Vitale: Uh, some of the smartest people on earth are, are in the trades.
[00:44:04] RC Victorino: Well, yeah, and, and I'll get to the last question in a second, but like, so I mentioned this in a, in a previous call as well, but the trades are interesting because it's a merger of both, like physical and also in inte intelligence merged together to create something that's that's bigger than one software, which I think is amazing.
[00:44:18] RC Victorino: But you also kind of referenced this just now in, in what you said, but a lot of the intelligence that we value as intelligence are, are engineered within. Made up things right, like coding for example. Like they, that's not real. It doesn't exist. But like to get a physical thing and put this physical thing and make sure that it's in a way that that can hold some other thing that's really heavy, whatever.
[00:44:41] RC Victorino: Like those are all real things. You think about the pyramids, like the same brain power of that is what creates things today. And so like, that's the thing that actually is truly intelligent. Everything else is manufactured within a world of human. Uh, I'm gonna go into, into a whole diatribe on this thing, but like.
[00:44:56] RC Victorino: Yeah. So a lot of the intelligence we value is, is based on kind of made up stuff, sort of. Yeah. Uh, that's funny. Um, what is one thing that gets you fired up about the future of the trades?
[00:45:09] Josh Vitale: Um, you know what really gets me fired up is when I see. Passionate people out there doing things for each other, you know, the, the, the ability that, that tradespeople have to solve problems.
[00:45:24] Josh Vitale: And then when they start to think about how do we heal each other, how do we heal ourselves first, and then, and then grow that, that's what really gets me fired up.
[00:45:32] RC Victorino: Nice. Awesome. Well, Josh, again, uh, unfortunate we have to have this kind of conversation, but really, um. I'm at awe of what you do. Uh, and I really want to thank you for being on this, on this podcast with us.
[00:45:45] RC Victorino: And before we let you go, can you just let people know what can they do to get more involved with Project Built and Learn more about Project Built itself?
[00:45:52] Josh Vitale: Yeah, of course. So, uh, you can visit our website, which is get built.org. Uh, we have all the information there. You can nominate a family for the retreat.
[00:46:00] Josh Vitale: You can help us because we have to fund this. And, and typically the best donors are are people, right? So, uh, you can help us to. To do that work, and you could also volunteer to be part of the group. So we're looking for, I tell people I'm building an army for the not so hostile takeover of construction.
[00:46:17] Josh Vitale: So if you're someone that this resonates with, please come to our website, reach out to me. I'm a resource for any, any listener on here. You know, call me and talk to me about what you're experiencing, what you're going through, if we can help your company, help your family, or help you individually, that's what I'm here for and it's my life purpose.
[00:46:34] Josh Vitale: And so. Uh, you know, and, and I know how to set boundaries, so you're not gonna bother me. Please, uh, just send a message. But yeah, you can find us all of our information through the website.
[00:46:43] RC Victorino: Awesome. And we'll make sure to link all that stuff in the project, in the show notes as well. So, Josh, thank you so much for joining us, uh, for everyone else.
[00:46:50] RC Victorino: Uh, until next time, keep building.