What does the future of the trades look like? It looks a lot like Henry Kneeland.
In this episode of Commercial Grade, RC Victorino sits down with Henry Kneeland of Carolina Chillers — a young HVAC apprentice and rising technician — to explore what draws the next generation to mechanical contracting and what keeps them engaged.
Henry’s story underscores the power of mentorship, early exposure, and hands-on training. From discovering HVAC in high school shop classes to working full-time while continuing his education, Henry offers a candid look at the opportunities and obstacles facing young workers today.
In this episode you’ll hear:
Take an honest, energetic look at the next generation of skilled trades professionals — from someone living it right now.
Henry Kneeland is an HVAC apprentice and technician with Carolina Chillers. Introduced to the trades during high school, Henry quickly found passion and purpose in hands-on mechanical work. Today he balances full-time HVAC fieldwork with continued education, developing expertise in refrigeration, chillers, and modern HVAC technologies.
Henry is a strong advocate for mentorship and early exposure to the trades, often sharing his journey to help more young people see the opportunities available in mechanical contracting and skilled labor.
Episode Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction to the Trades
(00:23) Meet Henry Neland: HVAC Service Tech
(01:10) Henry's Journey into the Trades
(02:05) The Importance of Mentorship
(02:53) High School Experiences and Career Decisions
(07:46) Choosing HVAC: A Process of Elimination
(10:18) Balancing Work and Education
(13:46) The Value of Hands-On Learning
(19:37) The Future of Trades and Attracting New Talent
(23:19) Challenges in Promoting Trades in Schools
(24:12) Increasing Exposure to Trades for Younger Students
(28:06) The Importance of Mentorship in Trades
(32:51) Experience and Training at Carolina Chiller
(37:15) Embracing Technology in the Trades
(39:23) Advice for the Younger Generation
(40:57) Lightning Round: Tools, Gadgets, and Misconceptions
(44:32) Attracting the Next Generation to the Trades
(45:22) Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Links & Resources:
[00:00:00] Henry Kneeland: There's great money in the trades. You can do a lot of side work. You can own your own business. I guarantee you HVAC is never going anywhere. The need for it is only skyrocketing.
[00:00:13] RC Victorino: Welcome everyone to Commercial Grade a podcast that honors the unsung heroes of the trades. I'm your host, RC Victorino. And first I wanna give a special shout out to BuildOps for making this podcast possible. Uh, today I'm joined by Henry Kneeland, HVAC, Service Tech with Carolina Chillers outta South Carolina.
[00:00:29] RC Victorino: Uh, and this is gonna be an interesting podcast 'cause uh, a lot of the folks we have on the show are seasoned techs and seasoned folks in the trades. Henry gives us a little bit of a different perspective on the other end, uh, of the spectrum here. So we'll talk about his start in the trades and how he's continuing to grow his skills through education.
[00:00:46] RC Victorino: And, um, we'll, we'll get a glimpse into what he thinks will help other folks attract people like Henry into the trades. So, Henry, welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:56] Henry Kneeland: Thank you RC. I'm, uh, I'm excited to get to some talking and uh, head into some questions.
[00:01:03] RC Victorino: Alright. Well, question number one is one that I love to ask for everyone.
[00:01:05] RC Victorino: Basically, what is your backstory? So how did you get into the trades?
[00:01:10] Henry Kneeland: So, uh, yeah, basically. All through middle school and high school, I didn't, I mean, really all school, I didn't love school. I didn't like sitting down for extended periods of time being cooped up inside. And when you're figuring out what you wanna do, you take what your skill sets are and things you'd love to do, and you try to apply that to jobs that are out there and so come high school, I knew I wasn't gonna go to college. So from there you're looking at all kinds of jobs and I started looking at the trades and just fell upon HVAC. I feel like it was a good mix of, you know, you get some electrical in there, you also get mechanical, a little bit of plumbing. So I feel like it was a good mix and it seemed interesting to me.
[00:01:56] Henry Kneeland: So I just went with it and I started at school and started working and it just kind of worked out. Um, I was blessed enough to be able to meet Greg Crumpton and he's been helping mentor me and pushing me through and just helping me guide. 'Cause it's, you know, you don't always know the best route or best way to take it or, uh, so he's helped me a lot and I've been really awesome and a blessing. Um, so yeah, I just kind of just chose it and went with it and everything's worked out since then. So it's, it's all right.
[00:02:33] RC Victorino: I wanna dive into that. Uh, so for folks who don't know, Greg is, is one of our guests, um, uh, on the, on the show as well, and fantastic. So I definitely want to dive not into just specifically Greg, but also like pulling back a little bit more mentorship and, and that impact for you and potentially for other people as well, for sure.
[00:02:49] RC Victorino: That are, that are in similar shoes as yours. Uh. So I know when I went to school. It was, it was, the timing was very weird. Like sixth, seventh grade is quite literally, like the year before that is when they pulled out metal shop. So I like the grade above me. Got metal shop. I did not wood shop as well.
[00:03:04] RC Victorino: Like same, like, it was very odd. Like I literally did not get either of those hands-on training, uh, courses they just removed for various reasons. Budgetary obviously is, is the main one. Uh, but did you have opportunities for hands-on things like that in your younger years or when was the first time that you got to actually apply the thing that you thought you might be interested in, which is the trades and hands-on craftsmanship and all that stuff actually at school?
[00:03:29] Henry Kneeland: Uh, I can't say I did. I never really did. I mean, I, I worked some jobs, uh, that had hands-on experience, but in, as far as school goes, I wish there was more options for that.
[00:03:43] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:03:44] Henry Kneeland: In school. Um. Like actually at high schools, 'cause I know you can do different kind of career centers and stuff like that, but in the high schools they should have certain classes like that that expose you to that hands-on experience.
[00:03:57] Henry Kneeland: But I never had anything going throughout high school. So, uh, was kind of very fresh and new to it when I went in. Right after high school. Yeah.
[00:04:06] RC Victorino: Oh, interesting. And then I also wanna, so you had mentioned, uh in high school. I'm not sure exactly what grade specifically in high school, but in high school, you know, you made that decision.
[00:04:16] RC Victorino: You're not, the college was off you, you're not going to college. Was there some sort of conversation or was that a big deal in your, in your household that that decision was that pressure for you to do the other thing to actually go to college like many other people have that pressure.
[00:04:31] Henry Kneeland: Right. I know exactly what you're talking about, and I think that's a pressure that a lot of people face by their parents.
[00:04:36] Henry Kneeland: But I've been, I was blessed enough, my parents were, I mean, they were totally fine with me not going to college. Um, but they wanted me to have a plan, so I had to find what I was gonna do instead of college. And once I found HVAC. It was simple. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna attack this plan. I'm gonna go take nine classes at Greenville Tech.
[00:04:58] Henry Kneeland: I'm gonna work a full-time job. And they were, they were very supportive of that. Um, but I think that it should be that way for a lot more people, uh, to have a, trying, trying to work a plan like that instead of just going to college without a plan.
[00:05:13] RC Victorino: You, you literally presented this plan to them, or did they help you create this kind of.
[00:05:19] RC Victorino: Because it seemed, you know, 17, 18, however old you might've been like, that's like, I don't dunno what I was doing at 17 or 18, but I certainly wasn't really taking my future seriously, honestly. Uh, so how much was it them helping you realize you need to create a plan versus you being like, this is, this is the way I'm gonna get to the end result, which is what I want, which is the future that I'm certain that I is, is right for me?
[00:05:39] Henry Kneeland: We looked at a lot of different things, so it was definitely not easy choosing. Between every, all the different options. But we went through all sorts of job opportunities, career paths, what my skills aligned with and what I, what we thought I would be best at. And so it wasn't easy. It was a lot of planning, a lot of index cards with just jobs on it.
[00:06:03] Henry Kneeland: Nice. I mean, it's wall behind me had like. 50 different just ideas just popped up there. So they just kind of helped me and we just slowly narrow, narrow it down and then it just kind of all fell into place eventually after enough of the pick into the weeds. So.
[00:06:20] RC Victorino: Well, it sounds like something that, like you should be, that's, I mean, not necessarily should be, but is typically something done at school, like with conversations with guidance counselors, but it sounded like you were having that opportunity at home.
[00:06:30] RC Victorino: Uh, because I mean, I don't wanna make assumptions here, but I think that. I mean, we've had conversations with other folks on the podcast as well with this is very similar. Like there is, I don't wanna call it like this, this like capital S system. I dunno what to say, but there, there is this, this entire ecosystem that, that does not necessarily factor in trades, uh, and, and not college essentially as the most viable option, right?
[00:06:56] RC Victorino: Like there's, I had conversations with my guidance counselor that was very specifically, what is your reach school? What is your safety school like? That was the conversation they were trained to have, have with me. Mm-hmm. But not necessarily the one you were having with your family at home with, with note cards and like, you know, that's not my option.
[00:07:08] RC Victorino: I wanna know like what's the, what's the jobs That's right. For my skills. Really fortunate that you had that opportunity.
[00:07:14] Henry Kneeland: Oh yeah. I mean, it was definitely a blessing and I, I did actually talk to my guidance counselor at school as well, and she, she actually recommended Greenville Tech and showed me what they had.
[00:07:24] RC Victorino: Good.
[00:07:24] Henry Kneeland: And she told me to like, okay, go look at all what they offer. And so I went through and looked at all the different categories and picked some of my top ones that I thought would be interesting. I talked to a lot of different people, so you just gotta really, I mean, just put the work in to actually come up with something instead of just expecting something to fall on your lap, you know?
[00:07:46] RC Victorino: So why HVAC? Why HVAC? So if someone's in your shoes, rewind three, four years and they're trying to figure out specifically, and maybe they've, they've nailed down the trades as likely the out the output for them. But why the avenue? What was it specifically that matched it up for you that this was the right fit?
[00:08:05] Henry Kneeland: I think it was a process. I mean, 'cause you don't, you don't really know what it's like until you're in it. But it was partly a process of elimination, partly seemed like a good mix. Like I mentioned before, I didn't wanna do plumbing just 'cause it seemed pretty nasty. And I mean, it depends on what kind of plumbing you do.
[00:08:25] Henry Kneeland: But, um, I didn't really, welding didn't appeal to me. That kind of work didn't appeal to me. Uh. Electrician was one of them. Um, but then I also heard, you know, you, you work with, if a really, if you're a good HVAC tech, uh, you're, you're a good electrician, you're, you good with electricity, you can troubleshoot and all that kind of stuff.
[00:08:47] Henry Kneeland: Uh, so I just felt like HVAC, after doing some research and stuff, I felt like it was a good mix. Uh, I liked the mechanical side of it, um, that appeals to me, and so I just kind of went with it and I liked it ever since. So...
[00:09:05] RC Victorino: No. Well, I'm gonna ask him the question so I like, alright. Okay. So Greenville Tech, or as you know, as we affectionately call it grandville tech, uh, what was it about that school that a, your guidance council recommended, by the way also, but like you also chose to sit what?
[00:09:21] RC Victorino: I don't know how many options perhaps in your region you have. Was there alternatives to, to this technical school that you could have done to pursue this career? Or was a school like Greenville the best option anyway?
[00:09:35] Henry Kneeland: Um, I think it was, I mean, I'm sure you can do online stuff somewhere. Uh, and they also have trade schools, I mean, in other states.
[00:09:45] Henry Kneeland: But for what I wanted to do, which was work full-time and then go to night classes, this was gonna be the best option. Um. It just worked out really well. I mean, work all day and then go to classes after time. Schedule works out. You're learning all day, five days, four days a week. You only have classes Monday to Thursday usually.
[00:10:06] Henry Kneeland: But, so yeah, I think that was probably the best option and still is 'cause I'm still in classes, but,
[00:10:13] RC Victorino: uh, how, Hmm. How much overlap? Um. Complimentary efforts like, so you, you, you made a, you made an interesting decision to, to, you're basically, your days are completely filled, which is, which is an intentional decision for a reason where we can get into in a moment.
[00:10:30] RC Victorino: But like, um, is there, are you learning things at school that you can apply directly on the job and vice versa? You're learning things on the job that you're like, oh crap like I know all this actually works in real life. I can apply this is in this other setting of a classroom, essentially.
[00:10:46] Henry Kneeland: Exactly you. They're both great. I think obviously I choose experience over anything every day, but when you have the technicalities to back up that experience that you're learning. It helps that much more. I mean, you'll see something in the field and you'll learn about it in class and it makes it easier to learn in class. 'Cause you've actually seen it, you've seen it in operation. You, you've put your hands on it and then you'll learn something in class that you'll see in the field and you're, you don't just walk up to something you haven't seen and be like, oh, I have no idea what this is. Yeah. Oh, I learned about that in class.
[00:11:21] Henry Kneeland: I know a little bit about it now. I can go into that even more. But it just, they work really well hand in hand. So I think it's an essential, uh. To do them at the same time. 'cause it's just gonna take longer. If you don't, if you don't go to trade school, I mean, you, you might, you'll be fine off, but you'll be that much better off if you go to classes and then if you, I mean, if you go to classes but don't work, that's just all that experience you could be missing out on.
[00:11:49] Henry Kneeland: And then, like I said, real world experience is worth everything.
[00:11:56] RC Victorino: So if you did not work full-time. And you went to trade school. I mean, that, that is a normal thing that people do, but like that does seem mm-hmm. Like, I, I guess what I'm getting at is, is my, my ignorant assumption is that if you're in trade school, it's very much like, uh, hands-on education because it's a hands-on skillset, but it sounds like that's not necessarily the case. Like it's not a lot of hands on. It's more, it's still very much What, reading from books or what, what is it that you're doing in, in school, I guess?
[00:12:30] Henry Kneeland: Uh, school is a mix of lectures and labs. Uh, so you could have a lecture one night, uh, half a lecture, one night, uh, the entire lab.
[00:12:39] Henry Kneeland: So it's a, it's a mix and I wish it was more labs. Yeah. But just, I mean, that's my personal preference. Um, but you run into the same problem if you, so you're saying if you go to school and don't work, right?
[00:12:55] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:12:55] Henry Kneeland: You run into the same exact problem that a lot of college kids do when they go to college.
[00:13:00] Henry Kneeland: They go get their four year degree, they come out, they go and search for a job. The companies are like, I mean, nowadays it's a lot more common where they're saying, okay, we, we need, we want experience. Like where's your experience? Yeah, I mean, you have the certification, but where are your experience? And I've found that too, employers don't care.
[00:13:19] Henry Kneeland: Even in HVAC, they don't care as much about your certifications. It doesn't mean as much. It's nice to have those technicalities, but what you can actually do is really worth everything. So. I just don't think that's the best route someone, if you're trying to get into the trades that someone should take.
[00:13:38] RC Victorino: So don't, I mean, this is, now, this is getting into like, I think above our, above our pay grades here, but that's okay. 'cause this is, this is a thin space of the podcast. Yeah. But then wouldn't, wouldn't you, wouldn't you suggest that perhaps the education system for the trades should change to, to like default to more of I mean, I guess that's what apprenticeships are like. Any, like, can you, can you kind of dive into a little bit more of that? Like the difference of what you're doing versus an official apprenticeship and like how they overlap or how does that work?
[00:14:08] Henry Kneeland: It all depends on the company. Some companies wanna hire an apprentice.
[00:14:16] Henry Kneeland: Really invest in them and teach them and put them in situations where they're, where they will learn. Some companies don't care as much. They won't really try to teach them as much. So it definitely depends on that end of the spectrum. But I would say the biggest difference is when you're going to school and doing labs.
[00:14:36] Henry Kneeland: Mm-hmm. I mean, it's dedicated time to the student. They're trying to teach you. So that's, I mean, that's the difference. Uh, so, and I guess you do have to have the lecture side of it, but, uh, I think it's important. I mean, it's good that they have the labs, but there should be more. It should be. I mean, 80% labs, uh, even if it was like a 10 minute lecture at the beginning.
[00:14:59] Henry Kneeland: Okay, here's what we're doing today. And just stick 'em out there. And just, that's the best way just to get your hands dirty. And even if you don't know what you're doing, it sometimes helps to just see the equipment.
[00:15:08] RC Victorino: Sure.
[00:15:09] Henry Kneeland: See what's happening. I mean. That's just the best way to learn.
[00:15:13] RC Victorino: I think that, I think it's fair to say that I think for a majority, not a majority of people, but I think for a large swath of people that it is hands-on and, and, and I think it's like kinesthetic, I think it's the proper terminology for it, whatever it may be, but like, uh, is the most effective way.
[00:15:26] RC Victorino: It's not necessarily for everyone. I, I respect that, but I think that for, uh. The world that you and I are talking about here with the trades. 'cause the, the, your story is, is, I mean you're a very unique, you're one of a kind of course, but your story is also in some ways not unique in that like there
[00:15:41] Henry Kneeland: mm-hmm.
[00:15:41] RC Victorino: Many folks who I talk to say the same, like literally can't sit still at school, like didn't wanna sit in the classroom, need to learn by hands on, et cetera. So I think that subset, like the folks who just are naturally drawn to the trades anyway do learn better that way, right? And so why wouldn't we be nurturing that sort of education where we're ensuring they're doing more and more hands-on?
[00:15:57] RC Victorino: Because they actually will learn better that way and they'll be more engaged and more likely to finish the program or whatever it may be. Because they're, they're scratching the itch that they wanted to get into anyway, rather than deferring it with more, with more training the thing that they didn't wanna do anyway, which was sitting in the classroom essentially.
[00:16:11] Henry Kneeland: Exactly. And it's, and that's funny 'cause I say that a lot, I'm like, oh, I mean. I don't like sitting in a classroom, that's why I'm in HVAC. And then they're like, oh, what are you? Oh, so I'm in night classes. But it's different because another reason I didn't like the classes is because it was stuff I didn't, I didn't have an interest for.
[00:16:28] Henry Kneeland: But now that I've found something that I have an interest for and a passion for going and learning about it is it's no problem. Like I can sit through a, a lecture and, and actually be interested and invested. And that's, that's the biggest difference I think.
[00:16:44] RC Victorino: How many folks are in your program or in your class, whatever is the right phrase.
[00:16:48] Henry Kneeland: Uh, it depends, uh, it's usually less than 20 per class.
[00:16:54] RC Victorino: What's the makeup like? Is it mostly folks your age?
[00:16:57] Henry Kneeland: There's probably only, it depends on the class, but it's more middle, middle-aged people, but, uh
[00:17:05] RC Victorino: Oh, interesting. It's, wait, so first of all, I, I don't think I, I can ask. You can...
[00:17:09] Henry Kneeland: I'll say a little than middle aged.
[00:17:10] Henry Kneeland: I'll say a little less than middle aged.
[00:17:11] RC Victorino: A little less. What is that court?
[00:17:14] Henry Kneeland: They're not that old. They're not that old.
[00:17:16] RC Victorino: Uh, how old are you? Can I, can I ask you that?
[00:17:18] Henry Kneeland: I'm 20. Yeah, you can ask.
[00:17:20] RC Victorino: You're 20. Okay. Uh, so folks in in your program tend to be a little bit older than you, perhaps like in their late twenties, early thirties.
[00:17:27] RC Victorino: Per, perhaps.
[00:17:28] Henry Kneeland: Right! That's, yeah. And, and there's people older than that, but it's not, I mean, there's no like, old, old people in there, but, um, do you ever ask, I just say it varies.
[00:17:39] RC Victorino: Do you have conversations with one younger them about like,
[00:17:40] Henry Kneeland: sorry to interrupt, but no one younger than me.
[00:17:42] RC Victorino: Yeah. No, no. Uh, do you have conversations with folks of, of why they chose to be in the trades, especially these folks who are not perhaps 20, 21, where like it's, it's, you know, for you it was a replacement to the natural progression post high school, which is college. For folks who are like 20, 29, 30, there's something that happened in between of high school and, and where they are.
[00:18:00] RC Victorino: Have you had any conversations with these people of what, what they, where are they coming from and why are they in this program?
[00:18:07] Henry Kneeland: Uh, that's a good question. Uh, a couple people I've, I've heard from, and for some people it's like, oh, I'm just gonna get a pay raise at work if I go through all these classes.
[00:18:16] Henry Kneeland: Um, oh. For others, it's, uh, my company would like me to have this certifications just to have 'em. And then for the people that are closer to my age who are newer to the trade, it's obviously the same reason as me. I wanna learn as much as I can to become a better technician.
[00:18:32] RC Victorino: Got it. So most of the pe so the people who are not in your age group are already kind of in the trades anyway.
[00:18:37] RC Victorino: And this is just the, uh, professional development almost, essentially. Right. Why? Well, I'll preface it like this. So basically there, there is a labor gap that's, that's not news to anyone. There's, uh, you know, a crumbling infrastructure there, there is now. In addition to the fact that we have an existing need for, for more tradespeople to get into the, into the industry, to keep up with the things that are falling apart anyway to begin with.
[00:19:07] RC Victorino: We have a whole swath of brand new things like data centers, for example, that, that are being built all over the place. Uh, that require not just, you know, brand new construction, but that ongoing maintenance as well. So you're adding to the demand while at the same time losing, you know, you've got folks who are, who are aging out and not enough people filling in.
[00:19:23] RC Victorino: And Greg actually in conversation we had with him, was talking about this whole dog bone shape. You know, there's a lot of people here. Like, we need to get more people to fill into that side anyway. What is like, what is the marketing play? What can people do in the trades to attract more folks like you?
[00:19:40] RC Victorino: Essentially, what is the messaging like? What is the golden ticket? Is it guaranteed, uh, security? Is it money? Is it loving what you do? Like what, what's, what's the value props essentially of, of being in the trades, in your opinion? At least.
[00:19:55] Henry Kneeland: It depends per person what, what people value. If you value money, there's great money in the trades.
[00:20:01] Henry Kneeland: You can do a lot of side work. You can own your own business. If it's job security, I guarantee you HVAC is never going anywhere and it's only the need for it is only skyrocketing. And so AI is never gonna take your job, ever. Uh, they can't do what we do as technicians. Um. And so those two alone, I feel like are pretty good reasons to cover out the basis of a lot of people.
[00:20:29] Henry Kneeland: Um, you know, coming out of, if you want to get into trades coming outta high school, you, you don't have to go into debt to actually gain a knowledge. And in my, in my experience, because Greenville Tech actually offers some tuition. So it's basically paid for. And so I'm getting free training and I'm making money, right?
[00:20:52] Henry Kneeland: And you're making money. And I'm living at home saving money, uh, which I'm fortunate enough to do. And I'm saving money 'cause I'm not going into debt and that's saving money. So not going to college and spending all that money. Uh, so I'm getting kind of a headstart. A lot of people that, I mean, that can feel comforting for people to get a head start and feel like they're saving money and building something, building off of something.
[00:21:19] RC Victorino: For sure. For sure. Like, so like when I went to college, I forget what I mean. I went into massive debt for sure, and also was not really, other than what we, I forget what they were called. Work study, whatever. It was essentially like, you know, minimum wage. On campus jobs, like doing nothing, uh, enough to like feed my meal plan essentially, is what it was.
[00:21:37] RC Victorino: Uh, but there's many years of spend of accruing debt. Right. But also not gaining any experience. So just like you said earlier, like when, when I graduated, you know, I was paying, I was getting paid the bare minimum as a, at that time, a news reporter. Because I was brand new to the field. Like I was 20, what?
[00:21:50] RC Victorino: 21 at that point, and brand new to workforce. And so I was at that lower. So not only are you not wasting money, or I shouldn't say wasting money, spending money on this education, uh, but you're also a, yes, you're getting paid, but you're also accruing the experience that is needed to keep on making more money so that when you're 21 you're actually making more money than someone else who might have went to college for four years, accruing debt because your three or four years more advanced in, in the workforce, which is brilliant.
[00:22:14] RC Victorino: Uh. So we talked a little bit about value props and like, you know, each individual values a different reason for being in the trades, but, but that's, that's assuming like in like, why do we have to market so hard to begin with, right? There are some other professions where it's like people are pouring in to try to become part of that world.
[00:22:32] RC Victorino: Why is it so difficult for us to convince young folks to go into the trades? What is it that's, that's the hangup?
[00:22:41] Henry Kneeland: I feel like it's two, two things. Uh, one ever since COVID, uh, from what I've heard and from what I've seen, a lot of people don't wanna work anymore. Uh. I don't know. That's just what I've heard.
[00:22:55] Henry Kneeland: And I think it's harder to find people who want to go into the trades, be in the field. Um, and then also
[00:23:02] RC Victorino: Real work. Basically. Real work is what the trades is, right? Yeah.
[00:23:05] Henry Kneeland: Right. And everything's, so, everything's surrounded by so much technology anymore, and it, it all rotates and revolves around that. So when you go outside of that into the real world, I, I feel like that's a lot less appealing for some people nowadays.
[00:23:19] Henry Kneeland: Interesting. Um, but I also think. I think it's the way school is set up. I was never exposed to the trades or had any option in high school to have any sort of, I mean, there's so many trades, but I never really was promoted or given the opportunity to take any of those classes, which I think if I was, I would've been able to start a lot earlier.
[00:23:44] Henry Kneeland: And for people who don't know what they wanna do, I think that's, that would help them as well. So I think it's those two reasons. Um, and that's it. If they're not, if they're not promoting it in school, in high school or not, and you have to actually go search for it, uh, that's a, that's a lot harder for people. 'Cause not everyone's gonna be able to stumble upon it like that. Um, of course not. I think that'd be helpful if they were to do that.
[00:24:08] RC Victorino: And, and you and I don't have the power to mandate the education system to start doing that. So, I mean, are there things that individuals, or even like smaller companies, like for example, Caroline Chillers or et cetera, is there like anything that can be done to increase exposure to, to rewind a minute, we just, we recently had our user conference, uh, down in San Diego and we had Mike Rowe on, um at the event, he, he fantastically wonderful presenter, talked a little bit about, uh, the labor gap, et cetera. And, uh, he mentioned like, you know, how like this 20 50,000 shortage and, and other estimates, 500,000 shortage of, of laborers.
[00:24:45] RC Victorino: And people were asking like, where do you find these folks? And he's like, they're in like seventh and eighth grade. Like, and that like, he wasn't being funny. Like it's legitimate. Like these are the, these are where you need to attract the folks. Uh, but anyway, so I, I do wonder, like how do we then, if it's not in the school system, like maybe pro.
[00:24:59] RC Victorino: Folks like Micro do have the, the influence to, to talk the education system like that. We don't. Mm-hmm. But what, what can normal folk do to bring exposure to, I guess, kids of, of middle school and high school age and their families? On this as an opportunity. And I think about this when I think about, like for example, uh, the Army, like they, they, there are their school fairs.
[00:25:25] RC Victorino: You'll see a desk for the army, like, and there's an opportunity for you to talk to this person. Is it things like that, like job fairs where the trades are coming in and, and giving that opportunity? I'm not quite sure. I'm just
[00:25:34] Henry Kneeland: Why not? I mean, right. Why not go to a school fair? Just get in the schools.
[00:25:38] Henry Kneeland: 'cause that's where, I mean, high school, middle school, I mean, you can never be too young to be exposed to it and be shown what it's all about. And I mean, elementary school, I mean, I don't know about that, but who knows? I mean, kids can be intrigued, intrigued about anything and love anything at any age. So I guess just trying to expose it to kids.
[00:26:01] Henry Kneeland: People that are younger, uh, so that they, they know that it exists and they can have passion for it or, or be like, oh, I don't, I don't care for that, but.
[00:26:11] RC Victorino: I mean, for sure, even in elementary school, like you, you, you know, if like you're a hands-on person who likes to build and break things and take them apart and see how they work and put 'em back together and the opportunities to have someone to like, to like nurture that and, and, and recognize that in you and be like, whether or not becomes your profession, it doesn't matter.
[00:26:26] RC Victorino: I think it's like, for me, like yes, it's, it's neat for the profession, but I also think it's like bringing back dignity and honor to, to the trades itself. Like whether or not you actually become, this is the paycheck that you make. It's like take pride in the fact that you built that bookshelf or whatever it may be.
[00:26:39] RC Victorino: And if we start encouraging that more in even elementary, then like beyond just filling the labor gap, it's also redefining what success and what we value in this country in terms of, of, of work is. And, and like you mentioned, like I. The COVID, the COVID, the hangover, I guess in, in that like folks are trying to find either not work or find easy ways to work the most, most convenient way to work, I guess the most convenient way to get paid and certainly the trades is not the most convenient way.
[00:27:06] RC Victorino: Right? Like you, you are working hard. You and I talked about this in a, in a previous phone call when we were prepping for this, but like, it is hard work for sure. Like we don't want to tiptoe around that. It is, it is hard work and, and for many people that's. That's a pleasure. That's a joy. Do you enjoy the, the physicality of the work?
[00:27:25] Henry Kneeland: I definitely do. I mean, being in the elements can be, I mean, you got some hot, we had a pretty hot summer this past summer, and so I mean, but I enjoy it. It's very rewarding. Uh, yeah, and I think that's just something that a lot of people have lost is the feeling of, that feeling after you do all the hard work and do what's hard, because sometimes what's hard is what brings the best things and what you want in life.
[00:27:54] Henry Kneeland: Uh, but it's definitely, it is definitely hard work, but I enjoy it a lot. 'cause it, it's just kind of what, it's what fits my skillsets the best. So,
[00:28:04] RC Victorino: yeah. Yeah. That I, I do wanna go back to now this mentorship. You mentioned Greg Crumpton as well. Mm-hmm. So what does that mean to be a mentor for you and how did that even come about?
[00:28:17] Henry Kneeland: So, um, basically my mom was shopping and she was talking store clerk or whatever about her kids, and she got to me, oh yeah, he's, he's getting into HVAC trying to find a job. And Greg's wife overheard him and overheard my mom and was like, oh, my husband, he's like into HVAC and he would love to like talk to your son or whatever.
[00:28:44] Henry Kneeland: So that's how I got connected. Uh, I mean, that was. That's not luck. That was, I think it was God sent and just a blessing. And so basically I started talking to Greg. He started walking me through things. He took me out to lunch. And ever since then, it's just been on path of mentorship and it's just been a blessing to have someone walk me through things and really put me on the right path.
[00:29:10] Henry Kneeland: And I think that's what's gonna help a lot of people is mentorship, because the trades can be discouraging. If you don't have a mentor or if you don't have someone to point you at least in the right direction, because if you just go in it without knowing anything or what's right, what's wrong, it's a lot harder and it takes a lot longer to get where you want to be.
[00:29:32] RC Victorino: Dive into that a little bit more. Like, so, so what is, what is something that, a conversation, I mean, share what you wanna be comfortable with of course, but like mm-hmm. A conversation with him that has helped you on choosing the right path or, or continue on even when it's hard or what, what may be
[00:29:50] Henry Kneeland: Um, yeah. I mean, I just think, for example, he, I mean, he took, invited me over to his house and taught me how to braze and that alone, like I'm, I'm learning how to do something and now I have more confidence to do that at my job, uh Sure. And school. And so things like that. It's like he can teach me. Things or show me certain things and then I can apply that to school and work and it gives me more confidence.
[00:30:18] Henry Kneeland: Yeah. And just builds my kind of resume as a technician. Um, and so I can take that into work and be like, oh, hey boss, I know how to do this now. Uh, and that shows initiative and, and a lot of it's mindset too. Greg has a great mindset about a lot of things and I definitely don't naturally have this mindset, and a lot of people don't.
[00:30:40] Henry Kneeland: It's just naturally as humans. But he's,
[00:30:43] RC Victorino: yeah,
[00:30:44] Henry Kneeland: he's got a great, a lot of different little tidbits and, and great mindset things. He's got a book that I've read and know. It's just right. I mean, you can teach, yeah, right. You can teach people a lot of things. You, you know, actual, like hands-on experience and all that, but if you, if you instill in people a mindset.
[00:31:03] Henry Kneeland: They can then take that mindset and it'll help them learn other things in the future or, or dig deeper to learn more knowledge. Study longer. Yeah. Don't, don't watch that TV show. Go read a book. Go learn something. It's, it's one of his sayings. Lifelong learning. Don't get comfortable where you're at knowledge wise, just 'cause you know how to do something.
[00:31:27] Henry Kneeland: You always are gonna be learning. Always need to be trying to dig deeper and better yourself. So
[00:31:35] RC Victorino: not everyone's gonna have that, that mentorship relate at least the way that you, you were, especially with Greg. I mean Greg is definitely one of a kind. There can be a perception that that folks in the trades are gruff, that folks in trades don't have the time to, to, to invest in other people, like they're doing their job, they're busy, whatever it may be. Right. They're, they're, I, I don't know how to put the, the right phrasing on there. Would you say that's a fair assessment or would you say there are certainly more areas of opportunity, there's a pool of people who are like, they want to share their knowledge, they want to bring the next generation up.
[00:32:07] RC Victorino: Would you say it's fair? That's true. At least.
[00:32:09] Henry Kneeland: Absolutely. There's, there are definitely a very large group of people who want to help and bring up, like you said, the next generation of youth. The question you, you gotta go find those groups of people. They're out there, whether they're just online or in your community, they're definitely out there.
[00:32:27] Henry Kneeland: And if you surround yourself with those people and try and talk to them, they're, they will be willing to help you. Now there are definitely people who don't wanna teach you, and they don't, I mean, they don't have time. Whether they don't have time, whether they don't wanna teach you, uh, they just. They don't wanna help you. Yeah. Which is fine. I mean, that's not, not everyone has to be a mentor, but I think a lot more people should be.
[00:32:50] RC Victorino: Sure. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience with Carolina Chiller? So, so first of all, how, how did you get the gig to begin with?
[00:32:58] Henry Kneeland: So, uh, went down and interviewed, uh. A while back, I, I can't, can't remember how long ago, I think it was maybe half a year ago.
[00:33:07] Henry Kneeland: Uh, Greg had mentioned something to, uh, the service manager down there. And so I went and interviewed and, uh, liked me I guess a little bit. And, uh, just, uh, he said he didn't have any work, uh, enough work in Greenville. Or in the upstate. And then, so a couple, I worked, I've done another company for a couple months. Uh, 'cause I was searching for a company that would really invest in me and that would be great for me, where I can learn a lot. And then a couple months later he called me and was like, Hey, got some work for you, got a spot if, if you wanna join Caroline Chillers, you can. And so I definitely took that opportunity because I know through Greg I knew what kind of company it was and that they would support me and that I would be able to learn a lot. And, since then I've definitely learned a lot and it's been the best company that I've worked for. Uh, and it should have been a blessing. So,
[00:34:08] RC Victorino: uh, I have two questions for that. Number one is, so the interview process. When, when you, when the first interview you had, when you said they liked your, what have you, like, what does that, what is an interview?
[00:34:18] RC Victorino: At that time in your life, in that role, in in, in your professional career with this kind of company, what is that interview? Is it just literally a conversation? Are they actually quizzing you on what, you know? What can other folks in your, in your footsteps expect during these interviews? Essentially?
[00:34:33] Henry Kneeland: It's, it's really very, it's pretty casual. It is my experience. And that's how most of 'em are. They're fairly casual. It's not bring your best tuxedo and, you know, it's, it's not all super formal, but uh, you know, he is asking, you know, what kind of skillset do you have? Just asking him about me, telling me about the company and, uh, if he would be, if I would be a good fit or not. So, uh, fairly casual and yeah, just kind of just talking about what you bring the table and who you are as a person, stuff like that.
[00:35:06] RC Victorino: But then you, you had mentioned that it was a good move for you to go to them because of the kind of company they were. And I wanna drill down a little bit more about that. Uh, 'cause it, it, I don't know what else you might have defined or meant by that, but I think part of that is, or maybe a primary part of that is will they invest enough time in evolving your career? Is that, is that right? Like, did they have the resources and the, and the commitment and the care and, and did they like, seem like to you, like they were actually interested in the advancement of your skillset and of you, you, in this role essentially.
[00:35:43] Henry Kneeland: Definitely. And they have, they have a whole like training program.
[00:35:48] Henry Kneeland: Ah, and uh, they're already sending me the classes for chillers. And so I've had a lot of different opportunities to learn. The biggest opportunity I've had to learn is on the job training because i'm alone working in the upstate, so I don't really, I, I get to do everything myself. You know, when I was an apprentice, you don't get to do as much by yourself.
[00:36:10] Henry Kneeland: You're mostly watching your technician do most of the work, helping them out. Sometimes you get to do some work, but now that I'm being thrown out into the upstate alone, I got, I get to do everything, which, which is great i, I mean, it's everything I've wanted. I wanted to be able to be thrown out there and just have that hands-on experience alone. And I've learned so much more than I would just watching someone work. And that's, that's the best way to learn, there's no doubt about it, is just getting out there, getting your hands on things and working your brain by yourself. Mm-hmm. Um, so that has been the biggest, it's like, I mean, I'm training half the time 'cause I'm just trying to figure out problems and troubleshoot.
[00:36:51] Henry Kneeland: Um, so that's been awesome. And they, they and I, they have a lot of, I may be alone in upstate physically, but they are very supportive and I can call people and they can help me. And I, all my coworkers are great. I mean, I haven't met anyone that I do not like or has not felt like family to me. And so it's just been an awesome experience and it's progressed my career a lot farther.
[00:37:15] RC Victorino: You mentioned in the past that, that, uh, you know, with technology everywhere, right? Like. I, I don't mean to paraphrase a little bit, but I will. Uh, so with technology everywhere, like the, the reality, the, the grit, the, the, the real life, if you will, of the trades is less attractive to folks. 'cause they're so, like, you know, they got screens.
[00:37:32] RC Victorino: I mean, right now I'm looking at, you don't see it, but two different screens could technically be three screens. Like I, I'm surrounded by screens. Right. Uh, but, and yes, techno, like, I, I agree. AI has a, will have a very hard time ever trying to do anything that, that a human being can do with their hands.
[00:37:46] RC Victorino: Like that's, that's a godsend for sure. But AI and technology is certainly becoming much more part of the trades than has ever been. Um, and I wonder, is that something that, that you dig, like as someone who's young as a, I think you said you were 20, right? As someone of that age who's literally grown up in technology, uh, is that something that comes as an excitement to you?
[00:38:12] RC Victorino: Do you see this, this inclusion of technology and like realize like, oh, this is an opportunity for you to lean into this thing 'cause you've got an, you've got an edge because quite literally you've been fluent since the day you were, well not the day you were born, but since a very young age. Whereas other folks who are primarily on in the field, you know, they half their life wasn't without this kind of technology essentially.
[00:38:32] Henry Kneeland: Yeah, I see it being very helpful. Uh, as far as just. First off, I mean automation, saving technicians time with their day-to-day tasks, paperwork, things like that. Uh, and it can also be helpful for troubleshooting or finding manuals and stuff like that. That takes a lot of time. Uh, so I think it could be very helpful. And it's, I mean, it's definitely coming quick and it's already here. A lot of, there's a lot of AI stuff already out there.
[00:38:59] RC Victorino: Yeah.
[00:38:59] Henry Kneeland: Uh, so yeah, I think it'd be very helpful.
[00:39:01] RC Victorino: Is there anything that, like, is fearful for you like that or you see like, perhaps like as a detriment to the trade with too much technology?
[00:39:12] Henry Kneeland: I mean, not that I, not that I know of. I'm sure there's some stuff, but it's, I, I mean, I'm not, I don't have any fears about that, so. Hmm. That's a plus.
[00:39:22] RC Victorino: It is a plus. If so, rewind back to like, I don't know, 10, 12, whatever, whatever age, uh, you choose. And knowing what you know now, this is like, I think this is a, a powerful question.
[00:39:33] RC Victorino: No matter, no matter age, doesn't matter if you're 20 or, or 80, it's, it's still relevant. Mm-hmm. Um. But at a younger age, and knowing what you know now with the experiences that you have, like what kind of advice might you give yourself? You know, like, let's say, let's, let's pick 12 years old. I think that's a, it's pretty impressionable age right there.
[00:39:50] RC Victorino: Uh, what would you tell your 12-year-old, 12-year-old self, uh, envisioning, like, you know, the, whatever you're feeling like in the classroom or at home, or a life, whatever it may be, what kinda advice would you give yourself now knowing what you know now?
[00:40:02] Henry Kneeland: Uh, definitely to never have any sort of ego of knowledge. I mean, you, you can never know too much. Uh, and I guess it to be, I mean, I wish I would've read more, but that definitely was, like you said, surrounded by more technology. Uh, I think if I had done more reading, it would've been even more knowledgeable. So if I tried to absorb more knowledge, I think I would've been better off.
[00:40:27] Henry Kneeland: But I mean, not, not every kid in middle school is gonna be some great, like scholar or something. Uh, so they're not gonna get that right the first time?
[00:40:39] RC Victorino: No. So what kind of reading do you mean by reading? Any, any kind of reading whatsoever?
[00:40:44] Henry Kneeland: Any, anything. I mean. Uh, reading is, you're gonna get smart no matter what you read, really.
[00:40:49] RC Victorino: I hear the Greg Crumpton in you right here. This is fantastic. This is lovely.
[00:40:53] Henry Kneeland: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely not an influence, I'll tell you that much.
[00:40:56] RC Victorino: Yeah. Uh, well, I'd love to ask, uh, I'd love to shift to our lightning round where, ask a few questions and then, uh, see what should come up with, with fast answers.
[00:41:04] RC Victorino: What do you think about that?
[00:41:05] Henry Kneeland: Sounds good.
[00:41:06] RC Victorino: Alright. Uh, so what is one thing that gets you fired up about the future of the trades?
[00:41:11] Henry Kneeland: Uh, me personally, I like. All the tools and gadgets. So whenever they come out with something new, um, I just, I like that kind of stuff. So, I mean, whatever they, whatever the future holds for that, I'm excited for, so...
[00:41:26] RC Victorino: gimme an example of a tool or gadget. This is not a lightning, this is now I'm cheating already, but gimme an example of a tool or gadget that, that you really dig recently.
[00:41:34] Henry Kneeland: Uh, they have the Bluetooth probes for checking refrigerant levels and all that. Yeah. Uh, so I think that's just cool 'cause you can hook it up and it's on your phone. You have all your pressures there. And so stuff like that is just cool to me.
[00:41:49] RC Victorino: Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, well piggybacking off that separate question then, uh, what's the one tool you can't live without? Doesn't have to be literally like a hammer. It doesn't like whatever tool in the world you can think about.
[00:42:01] Henry Kneeland: Uh, it's gotta be my multimeter 'cause Oh, I mean, you don't know half the, I think that's the biggest troubleshooting tool you have in your bag.
[00:42:10] RC Victorino: All right. Love it. What's your favorite thing you've ever built? Again, could be anything from like, when you were two years old, like you, that Lego set that you made could be anything.
[00:42:18] Henry Kneeland: Right, oh, there's some Lego sets that I built. Um, probably, I mean, I built the Millennium Falcon. Oh, sweet. That, that was more, that was actually more recent, maybe like a year ago or something. Sweet. But, uh, also built. We had some chickens and we built chicken coop for them, so that was cool.
[00:42:35] RC Victorino: Yeah, so I got some chickens too, although one of them just passed away, but yes.
[00:42:39] Henry Kneeland: Oh no.
[00:42:40] RC Victorino: Yeah, that's not good. We're, we had 12 and we're down to. Two or three, I think. Oh gosh, it's time to, yeah, spring time to do some new chickens, I guess, huh? Maybe. I don't know. I'll tell you. So I'm a family of three and we have four chickens now, and we, in the summertime, we can't keep up. Like we cannot keep up with just too many eggs. But then obviously the winter time it changes, but man, we can't keep up.
[00:43:01] Henry Kneeland: Right.
[00:43:02] RC Victorino: Anyway, I digress. Um, biggest misconception people have about the trades?
[00:43:08] Henry Kneeland: Um, well, it's kind of, sometimes it's a joke, sometimes it's not. They're like, oh, the trades are for people who are college dropouts or just aren't very smart.
[00:43:18] RC Victorino: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:18] Henry Kneeland: But it's the exact opposite. It's a very bright future if you stick to it. And there are some people in the trades that are insanely smart. Uh, so I think that's a, that's one I hear a lot, or not a lot, but that is a misconception and sometimes it's a joke, but. You know?
[00:43:40] RC Victorino: Yeah, no, I, I agree. And, and these jokes are rooted in some sort of, um, thought, like a belief, like a, a belief system. Like it wouldn't be funny unless people had some sort of level of belief on that, is what I truly feel about jokes anyway. So there's a level of truth in there in what they think is truth. It's funny because one of the things that we're doing at Build Ops is, is ensuring that we're celebrating that precision of the trades.
[00:44:02] RC Victorino: Like there, there is a, there is a mastery of mind beyond just the mastery of muscle in order to, like, if you, if you are off by a degree, for example, like things happen, there is a problem, right? That, that then cascades into two bigger problems, right? So there is a lot of mental, and that's the beauty of it, right?
[00:44:18] RC Victorino: It's both, it's the best of both worlds. It's mental and physicality together into one to create this, these amazing things that are bigger and beyond yourself, which I love. Uh, last question. This is not lightning round, but I do wanna end with this 'cause I think this is most relevant. Uh, is that, what advice could you give other companies who are looking to try to hire more folks like you? Like how can they, how can they be attractive to the next generation? What can they do?
[00:44:42] Henry Kneeland: Um, I think a lot of kids in, uh, that are actually going to school like me, uh, going to those schools that are, have these, uh, like what do you call it? Courses and students coming through their classes and trying to find kids in there.
[00:44:58] Henry Kneeland: And also, like you said, at high schools, they have those events where they have the marines going or whatever. Yeah. Go to the schools 'cause that's where all your kids are and you may show someone something they didn't even know they were interested in. But those two things I think are pretty important. 'Cause there's, I mean, the kids are out there, you just gotta find them and expose them to the trade.
[00:45:20] RC Victorino: Love it. With that note, I think that's a perfect way to end. So Henry. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate that. Your perspective is, is, is critical. It's, it's mission critical, honestly for, for the trades.
[00:45:30] RC Victorino: Uh, and thank you so much for, for choosing the trades and um, appreciate your time and for everyone else. We'll see you next time here on uh, Commercial Grade.
[00:45:40] RC Victorino: Thank you RC. I appreciate it. I'm glad, glad I was able to come on.
[00:45:44] RC Victorino: Thanks. Alright, bye-bye.